Are modern Jews converted Khazarian pagans? More evidence of Middle Eastern roots

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A team of researchers based at 11 labs in New York City and Israel has for the first time set up a database of genomes drawn exclusively from Ashkenazi Jews. The work is expected to be medically valuable not only for diseases common in this population but—with respect to cancer, for instance—for everybody, according to the paper’s senior author, Itsik Pe’er, an associate professor of computer science and systems biology at Columbia University.

But the research has also provided additional evidence for a current genetic theory about the origins of the Ashkenazim: that the founding population numbered no more than a few hundred people, Jewish men from the Middle East and the local women they married after they arrived in Europe.

The Ashkenazim are Jews who settled in Central and Eastern Europe, probably about a millennium ago. Their 13 million descendants, about 80% of the global Jewry, now live everywhere. About eight million live in the U.S., about 2 percent of the country’s population.

Because until recently they hardly ever married outsiders, the Ashkenazim possess gene variants rarely found in other populations, including some that cause devastating diseases like Tay-Sachs. Ashkenazi Jews also have an unusually high frequency of mutations that increase the risk of other diseases, such as Parkinson’s disease and the BRCA genes that predispose to breast, ovarian, and other kinds of cancer.

The new data resource is expected to improve genomic research in the Ashkenazim and lead to more effective personalized medicine for them. The researchers have collated complete genomes from 128 healthy Ashkenazi Jews and assembled a catalog of gene variants specific to that population. They plan to add 500 more complete Ashkenazi genomes to make the database even more useful.

The origins of the Ashkenazim

The team’s findings have also provided evidence that the Ashkenazi community was founded by a small group of a few hundred people. The paper, which appeared in Nature Communications on September 9, 2014, estimates the founding date to have been between 600 and 800 years ago.

Gregory Cochran, a physicist, wrote on his blog West Hunter that while he liked the paper in general, he believes this estimated settlement date isn’t quite old enough. Cochran is co-author with Henry Harpending, an anthropologist and population geneticist, of The 10,000 Year Explosion, a book about recent fast evolution of humanity; both are at the University of Utah.

The new paper puts the time between generations at about 25 years, but Cochran argues that 30 years is more likely. Also, he says, Jews were known to be in the Rhineland before the year 1000 AD. By his calculations, the original Ashkenazi settlement date was most likely between 900 and 1,150 years ago.

A number of different theories have been proposed to explain Ashkenazi origins. The one with the best genetic support now is that the Founding Fathers were Middle Eastern Jews who migrated to Europe and found their soulmates among indigenous Europeans. It’s another blow to the theory—promoted originally by journalist Arthur Koestler and more recently by geneticst Eran Elhaik—that European Jewry (Ashkenazim) are descendants of converted Kazars, a formerly pagan empire that ruled parts of Eurasia in the late first century. Cochran’s paper, which concurs with most current research, draws heavily on studies of Ashkenazi mitochondrial DNA published last October in Nature Communications. Genetic Literacy Project executive director Jon Entine discussed this paper here at the GLP.

Mitochondria are the small structures that provide energy to the cell. They contain only 37 genes, compared to the DNA in the cell nucleus, which contains about 25,000 protein-coding genes. But there are hundreds of copies of mtDNA in each cell, which makes them much easier to find and sequence than nuclear DNA, present in just one copy.

Mitochondria are never inherited from a father, only from a mother, who passes her mtDNA along to each of her children. Identifying different kinds of mitochondria in a population and comparing them  to what is known about the geographical distribution of different sets of mtDNA permits researchers to figure out where a population’s original mothers came from.

The research published last year showed that just 4 women contributed their distinctive sets of mtDNA (known as haplotypes) to 40% of the Ashkenazi population. All these mtDNA types originated in Europe. Another 40 percent of the Ashkenazi population possess other mtDNA that is of likely European origin.

Michael Balter reported at Science that some of that mtDNA might have  appeared in Europe as long as 7,500 or more years ago, before farming came to the continent. “The closest matches were with mtDNAs from people who today live in and around Italy,” he said. Hardly any were from the Middle East.

If these studies hold up, one conclusion from them is that, among the Ashkenazim at least, the a a significant proportion of Jewish Mothers were not, in fact, of Jewish ancestry. In Halacha, Jewish Religious Law, the child of a Jewish mother is a Jew.

“If being Jewish is defined as genetically descending from the Israelites through the maternal line, then many Ashkenazi Jews fail the test, according to this data,” Balter says.

However, Jewish law explicitly rejects genetics as a determinative measure of Jewish lineage. An although some Orthodox Jews adopt a strict interpretation of matrilineal descent as a basis for being considered Jewish, Reform and secular Jews—the majority of the world’s Jewish population—do not.

Tabitha M. Powledge is a long-time science journalist and a contributing columnist for the Genetic Literacy Project. She also writes On Science Blogs for the PLOS Blogs Network. Follow her @tamfecit.

  • Nigel

    Cheers Tabitha for another excellent article! An Italian friend who recently found herself travelling throughout much of Israel, commented to her close friend, (also Italian) that she saw beautiful women everywhere that resembled her so strongly, they appeared to be relations… Then asked her friend, are you sure you are not possibly an Italian Jew? Her friend found this quite funny, and replied “people have been telling me this my whole life!” I find it ironic too; as in point of fact, it is really that many Jews have this Mt DNA inheritance!! Hopefully the Orthodox shall also take heed of this science when considering conversions in the many cases where Jewish descent is patrilineal. Furthermore, the Y chromosome of (most) Ashkenazi Jewish men is more purely Middle Eastern or Semitic in origin. It stands to reason we humans inherit genes from both parents, so a religious concept of identity should not overlook this indisputable fact!

  • Fak_Zakaix

    “Because until recently they hardly ever married outsiders, the Ashkenazim possess gene variants rarely found in other populations, including some that cause devastating diseases like Tay-Sachs.”

    So, these “chosen people” are a race after all…

    • The “term” race is ideologically charged and scientifically loose-goosey. Ashkenazim (not Jews, but subdivision of Judaism) are mostly modern descendants of an ancestral population–not unlike the Amish or Catalonians or Costa Ricans. If you’re interested in understanding this issue, I suggest you read my book: Abraham’s Children.

      • Fak_Zakaix

        To say that the concept “race” is “ideologically charged” is not like giving away the game?

        So you do not belong to any ideology, right? Or maybe you belong to the “politically correct ideology”? But that would be an ideology all the same.

        “scientifically loose-goosey”

        Strange, because I thought that the article provided exactly such a SCIENTIFIC evidence. (At least in the case of Ashkenazim).

        “modern descendants of an ancestral population”

        ALL ethnicities are such a thing. We all came from somewhere.

        • If you are interested in the debate/discussion, read the book. Or not. It’s a complex and fascinating issue.

          • Fak_Zakaix

            Because you seem to be an “expert” please tell me:
            1. Why from a couple of hundredths around 1100 AD Ashkenazim have come to number millions before WWII vastly outnumbering the Sephardim (a situation that continues to this day)? Were the Ashkenazim women more “fertile”? Did the Sephardim practiced contraception? But was contraception religiously allowed let alone effective?
            2. Why the Ashkenazim look differently than Sephardim? But in a tendentious way. Ashkenazim look more similarly to Armenians and Georgians or Italians and Greeks while Sephardim look more similarly to Levantine Arabs. Ashkenazim are whiter than Sephardim.

          • I’m not your personal researcher. It’s all addressed in the book. If you don’t want to buy it then take out of the library. Good luck to you.

          • Fak_Zakaix

            I will read it but you need to pay for my precious time. If you agree I will give you the necessary financial details. Thanks.

          • Candie daughterofchrist

            Good 1. That statement of yours got me laughing. Thanks I needed that laugh!

          • Fak_Zakaix

            “One study estimates that from 1150 to 1300, Jews made up about 15% of the educated world’s top scientists…”

            Where did they get those numbers? That line killed all my interest in your book. And “world” included China, Japan, India, Byzantium? Maybe probably counting scientists like you…

          • Yeshayahu

            I’ll answer your two questions.
            1. The Sephardim population declined because of the Spanish Inquisition (around 1500 AD) in which tons of them were killed and forcefully converted, while the survivors were scattered throughout the world. That’s why their numbers declined. Ashkenazim interestingly exploded in numbers around the same time (1500) due to a high birth rate, as well as the fact that they absorbed some of the Sephardic exiles from Spain. Their birth rate was so high because the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth gave them tons of open land to migrate to and live on in East Europe.
            2. There are some Ashkenazim who look like Levantine Arabs and Sepharadim. Go on Google Images and search Jeff Goldblum, David Silverman, Oded Fehr, and Ed Miliband as examples. As for those Ashkenazim who look like Italians and Greeks, it’s because (as the article said) the European portion of their DNA comes from Italy and Greece mostly. Probably they mixed with Roman converts. Some of the offspring ended up looking like the Semitic Israelites, while some of the offspring ended up looking like the converted Southern Europeans.

          • Helen4Yemen

            “Some of the offspring ended up looking like the Semitic Israelites, while some of the offspring ended up looking like the converted Southern Europeans.”
            __
            I am Semite and no Ashkenazi is. You keep mentioning one Ashkenazi Goldbloom and I am here to tell you that he does not look Arab. You are obsessed with wanting to be one us. You are not! Look in the mirror and accept, embrace and cherish the European reflected in the mirror. Remember no Ashkenazi scores less than 99% European ancestry.

          • Helen4Yemen

            This is dna result for Alan Dershowitz and it is very typical for all Ashkenazi:

            Alan Dershowitz DNA
            98.50% Ashkenazi
            0.4% Southern European
            0.1% Balkan
            0.9% Non-Specific European
            0.1% South Asian
            99.9% European
            0.1% South Asian
            0.0% Middle East

            https://worldpeace365.wordpress.com/2016/02/08/the-jews-in-pictures/

        • 1harry2

          I am an Ashkenazi Jew with no evidence of Middle eastern DNA according to the lab analysis. I am 99% European. I am fairly representative of the Ashkenazi people. Where is the evidence of the Middle east origins?

          • Helen4Yemen

            I have seen many dna results of the Ashkenazi and they are all at least 99% of European ancestry and 0% ME ancestry. People can deny many things but not genetic science.

      • 1harry2

        Help me out here, Mr. Entine. I just received my DNA results; I am 99% European, and 93% Jewish European. My Dna results clearly indicate I have absolutely no Middle Eastern DNA. I am, as expected 2% Italian- non-Jewish, (I had thought, perhaps, more), but where on earth is the Middle Eastern DNA of the Ashkenazi of whom I am VERY representative? However, I am sure that when the results of my wife- who is 50% Palestinian- come in it will show Middle Eastern/Levant origins. The Middle eastern ancestry of our son , I expect, comes from my wife- not me. I will read your book, anyway. Harry Katz

        • Helen4Yemen

          You notice that there is a special genetic category called ‘Ashkenazi’ for the 23andME dna testing group. Why is it there? Because, the Ashkenazi have their own dna traits like the Italians or Scandinavians. I have read many of your comments and you are an outstanding person, gifted with intelligence. I noticed that Jon Entine did respond to you because he does not have a good answer for you, because he holds the notion that Ashenazi are ‘ancient people’, i.e. descendants of Israelite whereas all the dna results by Ashkenazi show them to be 99% European and zero percent ME. I am from the ME and at the end of the day, we are all human beings. But I think you are doing great facing up to the fact that you part of the European population and you just need to accept and cherish the European skin that you were born wrapped around with. I once heard Shlomo Sand say that more than 95% of the Ashkenazi believe that they are descended from Israelite. I believe his estimate was wrong. I put it at 99.99999%. There is hardly any Ashkenazi who is willing to admit that they are European for a variety of reasons 1) worry they are no more ‘the Chosen’ if they are European 2) they hate the word ‘Europe’, the memory is not good 3) they know they have no other justification to hold on to stolen Palestine if they are considered European and not ‘returnees”.

          1- West African
          2- East African
          3- Central & South African
          4- Native American
          5- East Asian
          6- Southeast Asian
          7- Northwestern European
          8- Southern European
          9- Eastern European
          10- Ashkenazi
          11- Middle Eastern
          12- North African

          • 1harry2

            Thank you, Ms. Yemen.
            In fact, my wife’s DNA came up as only 25% Middle Eastern- and the other quarter that I thought was Middle eastern(Palestinian) turned out to be Greek- but sure enough on a completely independent site I found out that her mother whom I thought was born in Bethlehem was, in fact, born in Greece! Talk about the accuracy of these DNA tests.
            So, you a Middle Easterner- and I- an Ashkenazic Jew, are in complete agreement that the origins of the Ashkenazim are European. I think that some Ashkenazim may look darker is because of the migration of Sephardic Jews into Eastern Europe over the centuries. The idea that the category “Ashkenazic Jewish” automatically implies Middle Eastern DNA is based unsubstantiated assumptions. Yes, the religion of the Ashkenazim is Middle eastern Judaism, but this I believe, was grafted on to a people who were primarily European.
            It is revelatory that an Italian lineage of 2 % shows up in me- and this is based on the historical truths that Jews have lived in- and married Italian women- since , at least, the days of Jesus. My Italian ancestry does not come from a more immediate source, as there is NO ONE in my family’s recollection who have ever married an Italian. However, the lore of Italian roots somehow found some kind of vague affirmation in my mother’s family- very vague. No one- NO ONE- in my family ever married a non-Jew until I married my wife, who is 25% Palestinian. If the DNA provided by my study was accurate enough to find my 2% NON-JEWISH Italian, why didn’t it come up with even a trace of Middle Eastern?
            Why? Because I am not Middle eastern. You are right; I am a European, as are the bulk of the Ashkenazim.
            Now, the rabbi at our synagogue just happens to be from Yemen. If you, Ms. Yemen, are Yemenite, I submit that your DNA is much closer to his than his is to mine. He and I, in all likelihood, have no DNA overlap!
            The Jewish claim to the Holy Land can be, if necessary, justified on religious, cultural, and Biblical pretexts, but not on the physiological determinants of the people from whom I sprang- the Ashkenazim!
            Thank you for the good words- I just wish more Ashkenazim had the integrity to admit that , in all likelihood, we have more in common- genetically- with the Pennsylvania Dutch- than the Palestinians or the Jews of the Old Testament, who, genetically, barely(if at all) exist any more.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Harry: I feel honored to receive your email today. I had begun to wonder even if you logon to Disqus judging by how few comments you have posted. I have read thousands of comments and I find you to be the most fascinating. I had wished that you would respond to my comment so that I could start what I think will be interesting exchanges between us. There is one thing the Ashenazi are unwilling to part with and that is the notion that genetically they are not like other Europeans but a group onto themselves with “Jewish blood’. It makes me so angry. Look at the link below where the Askkenazi seems to be in shock because he does not have ME dna and he uses the expression ‘genetically Jewish’ which in itself speaks for his delusion about his ethnicity.

            I will responding in detail to your comment – and yes, I am of Yemeni background but raised eleswhere.

            Thanks Harry, it certainly was a please to hear back from you.
            _____________
            “Am I really ethnically Jewish? 23andme says that I’m 91.8% Ashkenazi but I’m 99.8% European. I thought that I’d have some mid-eastern background if I was truly genetically Jewish.”

            https://www.quora.com/Am-I-really-ethnically-Jewish-23andme-says-that-Im-91-8-Ashkenazi-but-Im-99-8-European

          • 1harry2

            Hi Ms. Helen,
            Thank you for the kind words. And you are right: unless I somehow receive notification via e-mail, I do not know if anyone has responded to my comments. This morning three comments from you showed up so I responded.
            Yes, it would be a pleasure to continue the correspondence. I agree with you about the misnomer “Jewish blood.” I totally agree with you that the DNA of the Ashkenazim represents just another European grouping except that it is even more isolated than most European groups. The fact that the Ashkenazim are a very genetically inbred people -like the Pennsylvania Dutch, for example, suggests to me that we lived in our European communities for centuries with minimal disturbance from outsiders; the tales of rape and pillage of our communities, I believe, are greatly exaggerated.(no groups were totally safe from marauders and persecutions) I wish not to sound anti-Semitic in any way, but I submit that ours was a case of self-segregation – much like the Pennsylvania Dutch.
            You are in a more delicate position than I to refute claims of “Jewish blood” based on Middle Eastern origins because it would appear you are not Jewish and therefore vulnerable to claims of anti-Semitism. What, if I may ask , is your nationality?
            As for me- well, I do feel quite bad for the Palestinian people- what a bad deal they got and continue to get! Jewish territorial claims to the Holy Land are based on Biblical history and religion- not “blood.” And the discourse we are having is not about questioning that claim, but rather the physiological claims of the Ashkenazim to this land.
            By the way, this did not come to me all at once, but was, indeed, a slow, painful awakening.
            I wish you blessings and happiness for you and your family now, and throughout the New Year.,

          • Helen4Yemen

            Thank you my friend and I do already consider you a friend. I am not sure what you mean by ‘nationality’? I am of Yemeni ancestry. Today does not seem to be a good one for me for commenting back to your comments but very soon you will hear from me. I wish the same to you too, Harry.

          • 1harry2

            Thank you ! Hope we will stay in touch- please keep me informed of any new findings!

          • 1harry2

            Hi Helen,
            For some reason I have been having a very hard time loading responses to your entries. Did you read my comments to the Rabbi on that PJ blog? I stated my case. But, for whatever reason it is with great difficulty that I can post anything in response to your comments. Let me know if you read my piece asserting that my Ashkenazim brethren area distinct European ethnic group following Judaism, rather than genetic offshoots of the “People of Israel” in the Old Testament. Devout followers of a religion that began in the Middle east: yes; Middle Eastern: no.
            Hope you are well, and I am truly sorry about the little Yemenite girl, her family , and the American Navy Seal. A sad world, Ms. Helen.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Hi Harry. I did respond to you yesterday and I had begun to wonder why you had not responded back. Now I know the reason. I wonder why you did not get this message?

            http://disq.us/p/1fsfqim

            Let me know if you receive it.

          • 1harry2

            Got It! Our messages crossed!

          • Helen4Yemen

            Hi Harry: Here is a link where there is an ongoing discussion that you might like.

            http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/02/the_ultimate_alternate_israelpalestine_solution_comments.html#disqus_thread

            I also want to show you how to create your own channel on Disqus. It takes less than a minute to create it. The most important aspect is for you to think of a good name to call your channel. I can then send you messages directly to your channel. It actually acts like your own blog.

            https://help.disqus.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2163475-how-to-create-a-channel-on-disqus

            https://disqus.com/home/channels/

          • 1harry2

            Yes, I would like to explore this, Ms. Helen, but I am not as technically savvy as you. I am on the lower end of the Ashkenazim Intelligence spectrum, unfortunately. In this case, or son, who is a pilot and brilliant technically, must have inherited some rich stream of DNA from my wife’s side of the family(although she is even less technically savvy than I – we don’t even have a cell phone!).
            DNA is so strange! Get yours done; I’ll even pay for it if you don’t want to spend the money on it. I would like to compare it to the rabbi of the Congregation we still belong to- – a nice man- who is from Yemen. And tell me how I can load my DNA profile to this site.
            Thanks.
            Harry

          • 1harry2

            Well, Ms. Helen I did read where you happened to notice my comments on that PJ media site. I am sorry that you were banned from them. Thank you for the good words, but I am not the only Ashkenazim who has questioned his/ her origins. This should not be a political or ideological issue, but rather one based on facts. There is a need for much more research, too. You are not the reason I chose to comment on the PJ Media blog; this has been one of my abiding interests for some time now. I, too,have been passionate about this.
            Isn’t it ironic, Ms. Helen, that my son is Middle Eastern (13 %)- not from me- but from his mother’s Palestinian side!!! As tests become more comprehensive and ubiquitous, the truth- whatever it turns out be- will be known!
            All the best!
            Harry

          • Helen4Yemen

            Harry, DNA is only so many years old. We did not need DNA to know that those who arrived in Palestine from Europe were Europeans. Nothing makes me so furious as the claim by Europeans to be from the region. This absurd claim is used as an excuse towards land theft. No other humans on earth pretend to be what they are not! The Zulu is very proud of his ancestral heritage and so is the Yemeni, the Nigerian, the Kenyan … and whoever else. Only one group of people refuse to accept their own ancestry. Natanyahu was bragging not too long ago that his brother had done a DNA test which revealed Spanish ancestry. But what he did not share was what % of his DNA was Sephardi. All the DNA of so many Ashkenazi that I viewed online carry more than 90% “Ashkenazi DNA” and the rest are from other European regions and the non-European part is usually about 0.1%. So Natanyahu was being very deceptive about his ancestry. Had his DNA revealed a significant ME ancestry, he would have held a press conference to announce it to the world.

            Ok, Harry, I am having fun sharing all this with you and will be in touch again soon.

            This link is quite entertaining.

            http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/03/netanyahu%E2%80%99s-ring-and-the-legitimacy-of-zionism/

          • 1harry2

            Ms. Helen,
            Yes, Netanyahu would have held a press conference if Middle Eastern showed up in his brother’s DNA!
            But what exactly is “Sephardic DNA?”Is it Iberian, Middle eastern- or what? Is it different from Iberian DNA as a whole; is there a specific marker for Sephardic DNA? I have been curious about this. Does “Sephardic DNA, per se, show up in aYemeni Jew, or just Middle Eastern?
            I have more relevant info for you:
            I was reading ACTS in the New Testament yesterday and I was startled to read that “Jews of every NATION in the world were in Jerusalem…”. That means at the time of Jesus, 2000 years ago, Jews were already being classified by “religion” rather than as Israeli or Israelites. There were people who practiced Judaism in every country in the known world at that time. This fits in with your “Judaism” as a religion- not necessarily an an ethnic or racial group even back then. And, to take this even further, I will submit to you that “Israelites” were not even the prime group in Palestine at the time; there were so many others that one wonders whether Palestine as a whole was more Hebrew than any other group. If so, it was not a convincing majority. Much mythology- spread from “The Old Testament” exists with regard to the Hebraic character of Palestine, throughout antiquity, although I know there was definitely a mass of Hebrew/ Palestinian Jews in that land. King Herod- the great King who built the last temple, for example, was only a mixed Jew-maybe 50 % by birth.
            Now, if you want to hear more of my theory, I will submit to you that pagan German tribesmrn inhabiting a region known as “Ashkenaz:(more or less) were introduced to our religion(Judaism) by wandering Jews or traders with strong Italian DNA, and maybe even vestiges of Middle Eastern DNA sometime in the eighth century when Christianity was pushing through Germany. They chose Judaism, particularly because-in my opinion, anyway, the Old Testament is a stronger, more plausible chronicle with respect to God than the New Testament, and because its followers as a group were exalted as “chosen.” The “people Israel” are a chosen group following the laws of the Creator, whereas in Christianity, it is up to the INDIVIDUAL to make a choice for Jesus. The fact the Ashkenazim are so :”clannish” or group focused is because they absorbed the messages of the Old Testament- to be a people for God. Before Christianity became a State religion it paid for tribesmen to belong to a group with a very strong moral and spiritual code and social cohesion.
            So, you see, you and I both have a lot of fun with this subject.
            But on another level, Ms. Helen, you know as well as I do that the Palestinians don’t have a chance unless either God intervenes or there is a major war with disastrous results for Israel which Ido not want either. I want justice and honesty, Ms. Helen.
            Have a good evening!
            Harry

          • Helen4Yemen

            Harry: I left you a message at the link below, please scroll down to the bottom of the page to see the message. Thank you.

            https://disqus.com/home/channel/semite/discussion/channel-semite/dna_regions_67/

          • 1harry2

            Now to clarify: When I say that the Jews are a “chosen people” and that may be one reason why German tribesmen wanted to be a part of this group, I do not necessarily mean that I believe that Jews are chosen or exalted above any group at all. This is what they believed, and what the Orthodox still believe. I accept no doctrine of one’s group’s superiority over another at all…nor do I believe that any group is specifically special to God! We all have to try to please God as best we can…

          • Helen4Yemen

            Harry: Please go to this link and just reply with one word such as ‘ok’ or ‘hi’

            Then I will be able to send you messages from my channel.

            http://disq.us/p/1fumqn8

          • Helen4Yemen

            You: “By the way, this did not come to me all at once, but was, indeed, a slow, painful awakening.”

            Shlomo Sand: “As an Israeli citizen, as a historian – I can tell you that 10 years ago I believed that Judean society was exiled by the Romans. Discovering that it’s a myth, it was shocking for me.”

            ME: I have never been Jewish, never visited a Jewish home, never had Jewish friends. But I also never had Japanese friends nor visited a Japanese home. But I fail to understand why the Ashkenazi believe that they have no other ancestral land than Palestine. As someone from the region, I get offended by it a a great deal since I see it as the first step towards land claim in Palestine. There are probably millions of ethnic and racial groups in the world and each and everyone of them are very proud of their ancestry and heritage. There is one exception: the Ashkenazi who hate their own European ancestry and claim another’s as their own. I am not sure if genetic science will even come to the rescue and remove this delusion. You seem to have come to the realization that you have no ancestry in Palestine – but I also see some hesitation – some doubt. What people need to remember is this: Judaism came to different parts of the world, the “Israelite” did not go to Yemen, China, India, Europe, and so on. The Yemeni Jews have resemblance to no other people on earth but only to the Yemeni people and the same logic applies to Ethiopian, Chinese, Uganda, European, Iraqi Jews. They all resemble the surrounding people and the logic is very simple: conversion to a religion does not affect one’s racial make up.
            —-
            I will continue to respond to other parts of your comments as time allows.

            https://worldpeace365.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/compare1071.png?w=768

          • 1harry2

            Well, Ms. Helen,
            One reason why the Ashkenazim may feel they have no ancestral land other than Palestine/Israel is that they never had any other country. They only lived in territories(The Pale of Settlement) that were never autonomous nations. Jews who lived in Russian shtetyls, for example, are not ethnically Russian although the country they belonged to was Russian, and have no identification with mother Russia as an ancestral land.
            Most Jews, whether religious or not, have long had the notion that Israel was the mother country, and following their defeat at the hands of the Romans- and the exile- they longed to return.
            Ashkenazim , as you know, are a distinct ethnic European group and do not identify, for the most part as Polish, German, Russian, etc, because they are not. Besides, most of their communities were wiped off the face of the earth during the Holocaust and WW2.
            If I ever had a relative in Israel it would have been over 2000 years ago; I do not feel that Israel is my ancestral land at all. The United States is my ancestral land. But I cannot speak for the millions of Jews who feel that Israel is their homeland. It’s not mine!
            I have met many Yemeni Jews by the way- well, a few, and I would guess they have a lot of Middle eastern blood like you do. You being Yemeni, know who you are and where you came from- but the Ashkenazim seem to mix up their Biblical, Utopian heritage with their real heritage!
            As for the Palestinians, I can only say they got a bad deal- for sure. First thy were abused and marginalized by the Ottomans, than the British- and now the Israeli’s. And yet they’re the bad guys. What an injustice.
            But we must have hope for the best. And that God will show us the way!
            Be well.
            Harry

          • Helen4Yemen

            deleted

          • 1harry2

            Hi Ms. Helen,
            I will look, if possible, at these blogs over the next few days.
            But I am curious as to why , you- as a Yemeni- would have such a vested interest in the DNA of Ashkenazim. Yemen, as a nation, has not really been impacted by Israel one way or the other although I know that the Palestinians have. And anger is not a good thing to harbor, although most of us- including myself- have all sorts of anger.
            Do you have an abiding interest in your culture and your people? Do you live in Yemen now? If so, you write English very well! Are you in the States? Could you write a book about Yemen? Americans are totally in the dark about your land.
            I co-authored a book with a Palestinian woman called “A People Without a Nation”- about Palestinians living under occupation. The authors were Marianne Saadeh- a Christian Palestinian woman and me! We worked on this together via e-mail for about a year.
            Has your life been negatively impacted by re-establishment of modern Israel? Have you faced any persecutions in your life?
            I must confess I have NOT experienced persecution or prejudice of any kind. Despite a rather unsatisfying and stressful career, neither Christian or Moslem has ever shown an iota of prejudice against me. My wife, although being Middle Eastern is native American(and Greek)as well, having been born in El Salvador. (she would not look out of place in Yemen).We have been married 35 years and have a son who is a pilot. We live in a peaceful, rural area of New York State.
            Being Yemeni and well educated and bilingual- I would imagine- as well as curious and intellectual I would think you might have a lot to offer in many ways.
            I hope you have good things coming your way, and try not to let bitterness take a hold; I have done as much as a Jewish person can do in exposing the plight of the Palestinian people. And recently our own President and Secretary of State spoke up for them, too.
            You seem to have an interesting blend of compassion and empathy- and … well… anger! I hope the compassionate side wins out.
            Hope you have a happy New Year!
            Harry

          • Helen4Yemen
          • 1harry2

            Well, Ms. Helen, the thesis is not beyond the realm of possibility. Netanyahu would certainly welcome the fall of Assad- and Syria- but so would your neighbor to the north- Saudi Arabia. While the Arab nations fight among themselves, Israel is getting stronger. However, I do not see territorial incursions into the lands you mention. Saudi Arabia is, however, fighting a proxy war in your nation. I despise Netanyahu, but I also cannot blame Israel for all the miseries in the Arab lands around them, although following Israel’s recreation there has been a terrible destabilization of Arab countries. It is hard for me to accept the idea that the forces of poverty that have been at work in Yemen, for example, for generations can be traced to Israel. From the days of the Ottoman Empire, the Middle Eastern lands have been colonized and weakened, and now look at what we have. The golden era of the great lands under Suliman have faded into the twilight. My wife’s maiden name is Mansour- maybe one day these lands will reflect that name but for now …
            A sad situation.

          • Helen4Yemen

            You: According to Ancestry.com- where I had my DNA done- Ashkenazim have about 2 % Italian DNA!

            Me: Can you provide source?

            You: Similarly, believe it or not, according to this source the average Ashkenazim has almost 2% Middle eastern

            Me: I have seen lots of DNA of the Ashkenazi and ME hardly shows on their chart and when it does, the most that I have seen is about 0.2%. Can you provide source for this claim.

            Thank you Harry.

          • 1harry2

            Hi Ms. Helen,
            I will if I can forward my ancestry.com results where it goes over the various breakdowns of Ashkenazim.
            It is stipulated that the “average” Ashkenazim is almost 95% European Jewish , but with me- as in others- there is non-Jewish/European DNA, and othertypes of DNA.. In my case there was 2%non-Jewish Italian, about 1 % Finnish and Russian, and even almost a per cent Irish. There was a “trace” of Middle eastern.
            Ms Helen:
            , To show you how accurate these tests can be I have a Jewish friend who, although of sallow complexion, has incredibly dark and long black hair(or had). There was something”ethnic” about his broad face, almost Indian.Well, guess what? Although he turned out to be 93% Jewish/European, he came up with not only 2 % Indian (from
            India) but had a measurable trace of Polynesian! This explains his :exotic” looks.
            What don’t you get yours done? I would venture you may well have some ”
            Jewish” DNA markers in your genes! However, my wife who is close to 28% Middle eastern , 14% Caucasus and 28% Greek has no Jewish DNA.
            We’ll keep up the correspondence.
            Harry

          • 1harry2

            Ms. Helen,
            If you give me your e-mail address I can forward to you the results of my Ancestry.com profile. It will also tell you more about the Ashkenazim. I am 93% European Jewish- but that is significantly less than the typical Ashkenazim- typically they(we) are 96% European Jewish. I am, however, 99% European!(6% non-Jewish).
            This way I can support some facts I have dispensed.
            While I do believe there are Middle Eastern origins of some Jews, I am not sure about the Ashkenazim- I doubt it to tell you the truth. Somehow the group that came to be known as the Ashkenazim adopted Judaism as their religion, absorbing the myths and legends associated with ancient Israel. In this respect the Palestinian people got a bad deal, as I have maintained for years. But the Ashkenazim suffered terribly in Europe during the Holocaust. I don’t understand how things work, how the universe works, how man works, and how God works. The works of history are a mystery to me, Ms. Helen. We can only pray for peace and justice.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Harry: I must say that I like getting responses back from you to my comments, I still find you to be unique for your honesty and hopefully I can invite you in the future when I find interesting articles for you to contribute with your own comments. But it may not be possible considering how few comments you have made on your account but I would still like to try.

            On the Ashkenazi Jewish (AJ) DNA: I learned recently that the DNA tests go back 2000 years and from all the many DNA tests of the AJ that I have seen, there is nothing to link the AJ to the region. There are rare instances where I have seen between 0.1 to 0.4 ME DNA but many Europeans in fact have much greater % of ME ancestry than the AJ. But let’s assume for a moment that the AJ DNA was 99.9% ME. So what? Imagine African-Americans arriving by the millions and claiming some West African region used to be their ancestral land and would like to ‘come back’ and take over. The AJ have zero ground to stand on with their claim to Palestine. They are European colonial settlers just like the French in Algeria and nothing more.

            Harry: I do not need to see your DNA results. But why don’t you simply post your results like most people do: 93% Ashkenazi, 2% Italian, 2% — .1% — till they add up to 100%?

            This is the first time I am hearing about the breakdown of the Ashkenazi DNA, but they may break them down as Western Europe AJ, Eastern Europe AJ, Southern Europe AJ but I am sure the ME is not part of the AJ DNA breakdown. I will send you another comment responding to some of your comments of last few days.

          • 1harry2

            Dear Ms. Helen,
            Much to my surprise I have learned that you are a rather famous, well published author and expert on Yemen among other things. Your level of scholarship is well beyond any tidbits I can offer. I happen to have found the ” Hidden History of Zionism” at thrift shop years ago and still have it… You, apparently, have done a tremendous amount of field work in Yemen. But I am not sure if you are actually Yemeni or have just lived there for many years. I would say that, either way, you area courageous woman, to say the least.
            I have done everything I could possibly do to publicize the injustice and plight of the Palestinian people. It was, in fact, my main cause for years. You are totally correct, in my opinion, to categorize the Jewish settlement of Palestine- and the rewriting of the map of Palestine- as a form of European colonialism and imperialism.
            The situation there is so frustrating that thinking about it brings a good deal of discomfort to me- and anger- which I do not want to feel at my age(64) . Also there does come a point where anti-Israeli sentiment does lapse into anti-Jewish hatred(I cannot say anti-Semitism because I do not believe I am a Semite, although my wife, being an Arab, is, ironically enough.
            People who espouse anti-Israeli convictions are ostracized and demonized in this world- as you might remember the case of Ms. Thomas, the journalist(I think). I have had my share of battles with the Weisenthal Center, and have been labeled an “anti-Semite” because of local letters to the editor.
            You must be more intelligent and thick skinned than I. Perhaps if I were a professor…
            My DNA is simple, Ms. Helen:
            93% Ashkenazim(European Jewish);
            2% non-Jewish Italian
            1% non-Jewish West Europe
            1% Finnish, West Russian’
            1% Irish
            1% trace European groups.
            and “trace” of Middle Eastern.
            I am, in fact, 99% European!
            Our son is both Palestinian and European Jewish because of my wife’s heritage.
            Sadly, Ms. Helen, Netanyahu is rewriting the facts on the ground.The Palestinian people have been marginalized and demonized through no fault of their own. I cannot change this. European Jews have also suffered terrible losses.
            I will read more of your work, having been an anthropology major at SUNY Binghamton where I graduated number 1 in the Social Sciences in ’74. We, in this country, know so little about Yemen.
            Sorry that some of your work has been censored…
            And I do agree that geneticists have manipulated some findings to prove that the Ashkenazim are of Middle Eastern stock. Just like my name- Katz- from Tzadik Ha Kohane- the Middle eastern roots of the Ashkenazim are a European fabrication using old Hebrew scriptures. I, in no way , am related to Aaron or Moses- a myth of the Middle Ages!, And myes, the percentage of Middle Eastern DNA among the Ashkenazim is statistically insignificant.
            All the best. And thank you for the good words and YOUR responses to me.
            Harry

          • Helen4Yemen

            Harry: I am no author of anything. That would be a compliment well beyond my capacity. I am in fact of Yemeni background except that when I visit Yemen I am also referred to as ‘ajnabee’, Arabic meaning foreigner. Of course I am a foreigner to Yemen since that was not where I was raised.

            I have heard about an author by the name of “Helen Lackner” who does extensive writing on Yemen. I came to know about her when one of the Zionists was posting everywhere online alerting everyone that the person posting as Helen4Yemen was in fact Helen Lackner. Not true. “Helen” is not my real name, actually I picked that name in honor of Helen Thomas whom I loved and admired so much. The second half of my name “Yemen” is of course due to the immense pain that I feel for the tragedy the people of Yemen are suffering. Perhaps, it would be just much better for all of us to use our real names like you are doing when commenting online.

            Will write more …

          • 1harry2

            Hi Ms. Helen,
            Well, you certainly are mysterious I would say! You are not Helen Lackner, then? It seems you write on the same issues, with the same perspective, and Helen4Yemen gets confused, on Internet sites, with this woman who seems very Caucasion to me. This is quite a coincidence.
            That there are 2 Helens dedicated to Yemen is something. Both Helens- you and Ms. Lackner have got to be very brave people to travel to Yemen as outsiders in this day and age, although something tells me that the people of Yemen are naturally very hospitable under normal circumstances. You didn’t edit, “Why Yemen Matters?”
            I have become very interested in Yemen because of you, to say the least. I was surprised to learn that there was a kind of Jewish dynasty there before and up to the fourth century. That they referenced “Israel” and the “Hebrews” suggests to me that there really once was an Israel populated by Jews, as we are only 3 centuries removed from the fall of Jerusalem here. Boy, would I ever want to compare the results of your DNA with the rabbi’s in our small town in the far reaches of eastern New York State who is a Jew of Yemeni descent. Olive skinned, and most definitely not European I have got to believe he shares MUCH more DNA with you than me. But how much?
            Well, I can say , with regard to just who you are, “let the mystery be!”
            I have been to Israel, by the way, when I was a young fellow- twice- and it wasn’t for me. I was an ignorant person, and I had been led to believe that the Arabs were bad and had invaded the land. I did work side by side with a Yemeni Jew in the cabbage fields on a kibbutz- and we were only able to mutually understand “Jethro Tull.” She was very pretty; I am partial and always have been to women with olive skin and that is why I married my very attractive(partially) Arabic wife. For some reason, neither my mother or I liked our white skins, although because I have done so much outdoor work I got better color as the years passed.
            But I did not like Israel at all I am sorry to say and found the people snobbish and not hospitable to say the least. .
            We agree on many things, but you probably disagree over my assertion that there were Middle Eastern Jews who fled Israel after the fall of Jerusalem, although I do not believe it was either they or their descendants who made it up to Germany 9 centuries later to form the beginnings of the Ashkenazim. That the Ashkenazic Jews share few of the genetic diseases of other Jewish groups suggests to me that they are totally separate, physiologically.
            Do want to see the destruction of Israel? No! But I want to see fairness, decency, justice, and a viable nation for the Palestinian people. And the wall is an abomination the likes of which the Holy Land has never before seen. Tear it down!
            And thanks for your correspondence, mysterious Helen4Yemen(of course, I had referenced Helen Thomas)..
            Harry

          • 1harry2

            Ms. Helen,
            Indeed I was mistaken. You are not Helen Lackner, of course. You both have the name “Helen” and are committed to Yemen, but I do not think she has an axe to grind with Zionists, or even the modern nation of Israel or genetics. So, unless “Helen4Yemen” is her alter ego, you are two separate people!
            What is your mission in Yemen, if I may ask? My wife is very disturbed about what is going on over there, told me that children are going hungry because of the civil war. I asked her last night how she knows about Yemen(we never discuss Yemen), and she said, “Harry I am a Middle Eastern woman, and our son is Arabic , how could I not care?”
            Take care.
            Harry

          • Helen4Yemen

            Hi Harry. I want you to watch this video and give me some feedback. This is an interesting video – it is about a Jewish prayer – I have no idea how Jews pray. But judging by the comments, Muslims also seem not to know. The comments by Muslims are a good indication that Muslims do not hate Jews… I also could not help reaching a conclusion from watching this video that Islam borrowed a lot from Judaism – a lot!

            https://worldpeace365.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/jewish-prayer.pdf

          • 1harry2

            Hi Ms. Helen,
            I will download the video.
            I have dear Moslem friends including the chief chaplain to the Islamic Community of the Suffolk Co, Police Dep’t, as well as the first Moslem ever to deliver a prayer during an Inaugeration of a President(Obama). And my wife is a Palestinian!
            Jews and Moslems were once united against Christians and Jews flourished for the most part under Islamic caliphates. The issues between Jews and Moslems today stem from Israel’s recreation. I think there are many similarities between the religious observance of the two groups.
            Thanks for staying in touch with me!

          • Helen4Yemen

            Hi Harry! It has been a while since I kept in touch. I was commenting on a blog today and I thought about you and the reason was because there were so many eloquent and informed comments and I wondered if you would join such online dialogue if I invited you? Considering how little you comment online, I have no idea if you would agree or perhaps you may not even have the time. But if you do, I think you have so much knowledge and also wisdom that it would make the dialogue more exciting. Will you let me know. Yes, I would certainly prefer a ‘yes’ answer to ‘no’, but just let me know.

            Thank you Harry.

          • 1harry2

            Hi Ms. Helen,
            Thank you for the invitation- and I would like to join you in the blog although I am not quite sure how to do it so I will look to you for guidance.
            But you overestimate my knowledge and wisdom, I am afraid to say. I just try to be honest, with the information at hand.
            I hope you are well, and I am also sorry about Trump’s actions.
            Thank you for staying in touch with me!
            Harry

          • Helen4Yemen

            Great news! I am elated! Harry, stop being too modest! As I mentioned to you before, I do read lots of comments online and I found yours to be exceptionally stimulating – even shared your comments with others who had the same opinion of you as I did – that you were so candid. I find your comments to be a breathe of fresh air. But you must promise me not to even think for a second of how I would react to your comments – just be yourself. And I am now looking forward to seeing your so wonderful comments. Note: I most certainly do not mean pro-this or against this! Whatever your write, I find so refreshing.

            P.S. I had meant to tell you to say hi to your wife for me since you have spoken of her so affectionately.

            Thank you Harry. Will be in touch soon.

          • 1harry2

            Hi Ms. Helen,
            Thank you for thinking of my wife. I will try to replace this picture with one of just a few that I have with my wife on Facebook. My wife and I are not nearly as computer savvy as you. And I do think you overestimate me.
            The whole world situation is just so appalling these days sometimes I almost prefer not to think of it.
            And , believe me, it is no coincidence that Trump and Netanyahu are partners- in evil!
            Always the best to you and I look forward to the blogs!
            Harry

          • Helen4Yemen

            Thank you Harry. For the first time in my life, my intuition failed me regarding Trump. I remember when he first announced he was going to run on Fox news, I laughed. I remembered him from years back about something he said very inappropriate about his daughter that normal fathers would never think of saying, something of a se-xual nature which shocked and irritated me. But when there were only two repulsive creatures facing each other, I hated her much more than I hated him and I was so relieved when she did not win. Back to my institution: I had a gut feeling that all those horrible things he said about Mexicans, Muslims and so on were just campaign rhetoric. I even defended him against his “groping” accusations saying that it was an aging man showing his prowess to a younger man. But now, I am really getting scared. Maybe they were not just campaign promises and he did mean what he said. We have rough years ahead of us.

            Ok Harry, you will hear from me very soon.

          • 1harry2

            Hi Ms. Helen,
            Actually I also gave Trump the benefit of the doubt. Although I did not vote for him he did not appall me. I thought he was a clown and never expected him to win. And he had some valid points. I wrote a letter to the editor defending him
            But, as you see, this was not campaign rhetoric. His buddy, Netanyahu, recently voiced his approval of the Wall between Mexico and the U.S. He’s an expert on walls and segregating people, after all.
            Jews in the U.S. are torn between their liberal agenda which Trump disdains. and their undying support for Israel which Trump obviously has.
            As the old expression goes, with regard to Trump and Netanyahu, well, the chickens have come home to roost.
            Take care.
            Harry

          • Helen4Yemen

            Rabbi Zarmi: This is one of the stupidest rabbis around. I have had many exchanges with this man and he never seems to learn. He says the Ashkenazi ancestry is from no other place but Palestine and that his wife had done a DNA test and he could prove it. I asked him to post it. He did not. I mentioned to him that there is a genetic group called “Ashkenazi” (23andME) or “European-Jewish” (Ancestry dot com) both categorized under Europe. He comes up with so much nonsense and it amazes me that this man has been given space to write articles on this blog called PJMedia (very right-wing blog). I am attaching the link below not for you to comment necessarily but to get a view of what it is that I argue about, which is: Ashkenazi are as European as the Italians, the Greeks or the Germans. Yes, at the end of the day we are all human, but if a group of people are going to justify their seizure of Arab land by saying they were just ‘returning’, then I have a duty to debunk that false claim.

            https://pjmedia.com/faith/2017/01/26/this-weeks-torah-portion-celebrating-israels-creation-with-wine/#comment-3128518673

          • Helen4Yemen
          • Helen4Yemen

            Hi again Harry: I started commenting on a very conservative blog called ‘American Thinker’ in recent days. They deleted many of my comments but for now I am glad they have not banned me (yet). The reason why I think this is a good place for you to join is because there are so many well-educated, very sharp and eloquent commentators like you on this blog. You will also see on this link many of my very ANGRY comments (I laughed as I typed the last few words). How I wish I had invited you earlier while this dialogue was going on back and forth – but I first wanted to get your permission to join. OK, Harry, if you would like, comment back to some of the comments.

            Really excited about having you join … really!

            http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/01/how_obama_and_kerry_betrayed_israel_at_the_un_comments.html

      • Helen4Yemen

        What ancient population? You are trying to say the ‘Israelite’? No Ashkenazi had ever scored less than 99% European ancestry on their dna results. How do a people whose ancestry is 99% European then turn around and claim to be from a land inhabited by people of color. I happen to be from the region and we know who looks European and who does not? How long is this denial for one’s own ancestry and longing for another going to go on. Genetic science is here and it is very accurate.

    • 1harry2

      Well, Mr. Zakais I hardly consider myself “chosen.” But I do agree we are a race. I am a victim of inbreeding, but the entire Eastern European Ashkenazi community , inherited diseases and all does fit into the category of race. The trouble is, it is not “Middle Eastern.” I have no grounds for a “right of return” to Israel based on the land- that is a Palestinian inheritance- but perhaps on the grounds of religion although most of family were non=believers. But we still don’t know the source of this race. Who ruled out the Kazars? There must be some independent source.

      • Émile

        So, let’s take it slowly.

        You said above that you are “99% European” based on some lab results. Let’s suppose the results are accurate and the science behind them sound.

        Firstly “Europeans” are divided broadly speaking between Nordic Europeans (Germanics), Mediterranean Europeans (Greeks, Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese and Southern French) , Western Europeans (Celts) and Eastern Europeans (Slavs).

        The Ashkenazim resemble in look mostly the Mediterranean Europeans. They look very differently than the Germanics, Celts and Slavs.

        But maybe the Mediterranean Europeans are themselves of Middle Eastern origin or have in their genetic makeup a lot of Middle Eastern genes.
        So the fact that you have “99% (Mediterranean) European genes” doesn’t prove anything.

        • 1harry2

          You raise interesting questions, Mr. Emile. What DNA goes into a European Jew? Is there any Middle Eastern component? Studies have shown a strong Italian strain in the Ashkenazim and I have about 6% non-Jewish Italian DNA. Right now it seems I have zero percent Middle eastern and I am highly representative of the Ashkenazim. Let’s see what DNA studies reveal about my wife whose paternal ancestors were from Bethlehem, in Palestine(the maternal side is native American and Spanish). I would submit that the apostles- and Jesus- have more DNA in common with today’s Palestinians than today’s Ashkenazim!
          .Thank you.

          • Émile

            I recommend to you a proper academic study on the genetics of the Askenazim:

            Harry Ostrer’s book: “Legacy: A Genetic History of the Jewish People”.
            He obviously disagrees with you.

          • 1harry2

            Sure, Mr. Emile. I am obviously a layman as far as genetics is concerned. But if there is no overlap between my wife’s DNA which will surely show a Middle Eastern component and mine, how can we posit a Middle Eastern source for Ashkenazim? There is a tremendous divergence of opinion on this in academia as well.But I will order the book. Thank you!

          • Émile

            Don’t you have too many books in your house already?… Even if you don’t there is no need to buy it. There are several reviews of it on the Internet. And there is also the possibility to download it for free… Ask students about this possibility… I haven’t read it myself but I read reviews of it.
            Anyway, what is puzzling about Jews is that while we know a great deal about their history of persecution (a lot from their historical texts) – that a massacre happened in 1190 in York, that they were massacred after the fall of Jerusalem in 1099, etc., etc. – that we know so little about who they really are.

          • 1harry2

            Hi Mr. Emile,
            I think you must have meant that the Jews were massacred after the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD, not 1099. Jews were continually purged from the western world after the fall of Jerusalem: Spain, England, etc. The bulk of the Jewish people lived in the “Pale” in Eastern Europe where the Ashkenazim developed. Close to 6,000,000 were there by 1900- over a third of all the Jews in the world. To me there is simply no way that this population could have arisen out of the Jewish exiles following the fall of Jerusalem. The Ashkenazim , are, indeed, a very peculiar people, whose roots- in my opinion- are Russian, but whose religion is Middle eastern. It is nice that you are interested. What is your nationality?

          • Émile

            1. “The bulk of the Jewish people lived in the “Pale” in Eastern Europe where the Ashkenazim developed.”

            You rather mean historical Poland. The Pale of settlement took effect after the conquering of eastern Poland by Russian at the end of the 18th century.

            Ashkenazim are Jews with German-sounding names speaking a Hebreo-German dialect. Why this?

            2. ” Close to 6,000,000 were there by 1900- over a third of all the Jews in the world.”

            You mean, probably, two thirds.

            3. “The Ashkenazim , are, indeed, a very peculiar people, whose roots- in my opinion- are Russian, but whose religion is Middle eastern.”

            You mean the true Jews are the Sephardim? Then there should be major genetic differences between the Sephardim and the Ashkenazim.

            4. “What is your nationality?”
            French of course.

          • 1harry2

            Hi Mr. Emile,
            I should have realized that with a Breve(?) over the “e” you were French!
            Now, you are right: There were only 9 or 10 million Jews in the world in 1900 making the Ashkenazim 2/3 of the population. Somehow, in less than 40 years the population grew to 17 million- I was using that number.
            I do not see how the Ashkenazim and Sephardim are related; we do not share the same inherited genetic disorders, and although the commonality is supposed to be the common “Levant” or :Middle eastern” source none of this turns up in my ancestry and I am representative of 93% of Ashkenazim. I have between 2 and 6 percent non-Jewish Italian DNA. I am a typical Ashkenazi Jew with no evidence of Middle Eastern DNA.
            Are the French Jews considered Ashkenazi? Where did they came from?
            The French, in general, have a culture, an identity, and a place that define them. The Jewish people lack the “place” as far as I am concerned: spurious religious texts with almost no archeological evidence to support a genuine, exclusive claim to Palestine/Israel. Russian Jews have usurped the Palestinian birthright.

          • Émile

            1. ” I am a typical Ashkenazi Jew with no evidence of Middle Eastern DNA.”

            Then the mainstream Jewish (Ashkenazim ?) researchers are lying or at least hiding something…

            2. “Are the French Jews considered Ashkenazi? Where did they came from?”

            The majority of French Jews now are Northern African Sephardim.

            In Western Europe (France, UK, Italy, Holland) before let’s say 1900 the majority of Jews were Western Sephardim. They were no less chauvinistic than the Ashkenazim. They contributed to early Zionism. See Moses Montefiore.

            Who knows, maybe the state of Israel would have been formed even if the Ashkenazim hadn’t existed.

            3. “The Jewish people lack the “place” as far as I am concerned: spurious religious texts with almost no archeological evidence”

            Then on what is based the Jewish identity? Only on religion? What reasons would have an non-religious Jew (in the sense that his parents were Jews and so on) to not fully assimilate in the host nation?

            4. “Russian Jews have usurped the Palestinian birthright”

            They were the last wave of invaders of that land…

            PS If you want to close the discussion, it’s OK. Bye.

          • Helen4Yemen

            “Then the mainstream Jewish (Ashkenazim ?) researchers are lying or at least hiding something…”

            http://www.pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/files/2014/11/KushnerDNA.jpg

            Tony Kushner is very typical for Ashkenazi Jews at 99.9% European and 0% ME. Stop being in denial.

          • Helen4Yemen

            “The majority of French Jews now are Northern African Sephardim.”
            ___
            Huh? You got any proof? What about African Jews? Do they also have ancient Israelite genes?

          • Helen4Yemen

            “Who knows, maybe the state of Israel would have been formed even if the Ashkenazim hadn’t existed.”
            __
            HUH?

          • Yeshayahu

            The Khazars were ruled out by this study among others: http://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol_preprints/41/
            You have to remember that the Khazars weren’t even European, they were Central Asian Turkic peoples who migrated through Eurasia.

            It’s impossible that Ashkenazim are Russian in origin because their native ancestral language is Yiddish, which is mostly a mixture of German and Hebrew. In other words, the language of Judeans who settled in Germany. It was only later in history (post 1200) that they started migrating from Germany into East Europe. On the other hand they had been in Germany and calling themselves “Ashkenazi” since roughly 800AD.

            The vast majority of *academic* genetic studies have found that Ashkenazim and Sepharadim have nearly identical DNA. As I explained to you in another comment, personal DNA tests are not advanced enough to determine the *origin* of the Ashkenazi DNA.

            The migration of Semitic Judeans/Israelites to Rome in ancient times is well recorded. They set up a thriving community there and married local Italian and Greek women in the first generation in order to survive (as the DNA tests show). Some of these Roman Jews eventually went to Spain and became “Sepharadim” while some went to Germany and became “Ashkenazim”. It’s really quite simple.

          • 1harry2

            I think, by now, we can rule out the theory that the Ashkenazim emerged from the Kazars, as the DNA studies don’t show the influence of this group on European Jews, and I agree with you-very much- about the influence of Italian DNA on Jews- born out by historical fact, DNA studies- and my own, for that matter. But I see no genetic evidence for our(Askenazic) roots in the Middle East, and I disagree with you that there are major similarities between the DNA of the Ashkenazim and Sepharadim , unless intermarried. The origin of the Ashkenazim is not resolved at all. All I know it is that it is a very isolated, restricted gene pool with little evidence of DNA infusions from other Europeans, as a whole, with the exception of the Italian factor.The Ashkenazim are not a hybrid group, but the “purest” white European group outside of Scandanavia, perhaps
            .

          • Helen4Yemen

            “The vast majority of *academic* genetic studies have found that Ashkenazim and Sepharadim have nearly identical DNA. ”

            https://worldpeace365.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/compare109.png?w=1496

          • Helen4Yemen

            “As I explained to you in another comment, personal DNA tests are not advanced enough to determine the *origin* of the Ashkenazi DNA.

            Are they wrong about Soladad O’Brein’s ancesty in Africa?
            ____
            https://i0.wp.com/worldpeace365.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/dersh-soledad.png?ssl=1&w=450

          • Helen4Yemen

            “They set up a thriving community there and married local Italian and Greek women ”

            Got proof?

          • Helen4Yemen

            https://i2.wp.com/worldpeace365.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/rabbi-josh-hammerman.png?ssl=1&w=450

            “As I explained to you in another comment, personal DNA tests are not advanced enough to determine the *origin* of the Ashkenazi DNA.”
            __
            All Ashkenazi Jews have 99% European dna

          • Helen4Yemen

            The Ashkenazim are not a hybrid group, but the “purest” white European group outside of Scandanavia, perhaps”
            ___
            Exactly! 38 genetic diseases suffered by the Ashkenazi is enough evidence in addition to modern day genetic science. But 99.999999% will be in total denial.

          • Yeshayahu

            There is tons of archaeological evidence for the ancient Israelite and Judean civilization. Google the Merneptah Stele, the Mesha Stele, the Tel Dan Stele, and the Kurkh Monolith. Those are all ancient archaeological find that mention early ancient Israel. As you go later into ancient Israelite/Judean history the evidence becomes enourmous. Google the Dead Sea Scrolls for example. The ancient Roman and Greek sources are filled with references to ancient Judea.

          • Helen4Yemen

            “There is tons of archaeological evidence for the ancient Israelite and Judean civilization.”
            __
            How do you figure the Ashkenazi at 0% confirmed dna linking them to Palestine have anything to do with ancient Israelite?

          • Helen4Yemen
          • Helen4Yemen

            “I would submit that the apostles- and Jesus- have more DNA in common with today’s Palestinians than today’s Ashkenazim!”
            ___
            But the Ashkenazi have zero dna connecting them to Palestine but 99% to Europe.

            http://www.thejewishweek.com/editorial-opinion/opinion/were-all-people-color

          • 1harry2

            Well, that’s what I said Ms. Yemen. We Ashkenazi Jews have VERY little connecting us to the DNA of Jesus or the Palestinians no matter how hard the politically correct geneticists try. We are, essentially, a European people.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Thank you Harry, this admission is rare among the Ashkenazi. I will be sharing with you so much information in the coming days.

        • Helen4Yemen
        • Helen4Yemen

          You are in denial. There is a specific category for Ashkenazi under Europe. Are you aware that if one has even 0.1 ME genes that the ME will change color to indicate the person having ancestry in that region. For the Ashkenazi, the ME and North African are always white, meaning zero ancestry. Accept who you are, Europeans, live and let live. Btw: I am from the ME and I am here to tell you that no Ashkenazi is Semitic.

          • Émile

            By your logic Amal Cooney is “White”, isnt it? She has white skin, and not squinted eyes like the East Asians therefore she must be European, like the Ashkenazi, isn’t it? You are European too I suppose… Everybody who has white skin and round eyes is “European”…

          • Helen4Yemen

            https://i2.wp.com/worldpeace365.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/dna-4-ashkenazi1.png?ssl=1&w=900

            Will her DNA say 99.9% European ancestry and 0% ME ancestry – like it does for all the Ashkenazi?

          • Helen4Yemen

            You need to stop peddling lies. Is “Ashkenazi” not a genetic category all on its own, categorized under Europe? Genetic science is here and no more of that nonsense about white Europeans “coming back” to a land inhabited by people of color.

            https://www.23andme.com/ancestry-composition-guide/

          • Helen4Yemen

            https://i1.wp.com/worldpeace365.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/ammal-livni.png?ssl=1&w=500

            One looks vividly European and the other looks from the ME or Latin America. Do you have a problem distinguishing between the European and non-European

          • Émile

            Or both looking Italian, Greek or as you admitted Spanish (Latino). Definitely not Slavic, Germanic or Celtic. They can dye their hair any shade of blonde, that wouldn’t make them look like Marilyn… Italians, Greeks and Spaniards are considered “Europeans” afaik. But intelligent and experience people would judge both ladies as most probably Jewesses, definitely from the ME.
            But ideologically wise you are right comrade. Free Palestine!

          • Helen4Yemen
          • Émile

            Amal looks Jewish to me, really. If I hadn’t been not so tired at this moment I would have posted Jewesses that resembled her. She has something from Anne Frank.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Will you do it when you are not tired … or simply provide the name and I will look them up.

            Btw: There are two groups of people who insist that the Ashkenazi are not ‘white’
            one group is the Ashkenazi themselves who wish to distance themselves from any
            anything Europe and the second group is white supremacists that do not like the
            idea of being genetic European cousins. Which one are you?

          • Émile

            1. I’ve provided one name: Anne Frank.
            2. The second paragraph illustrates one shortcoming of your argument. Why would the Ashkenazi insist that they are the descendants of the Ancient Jews? (BTW, were the Ancient Jews “European” too? And what happened to them? Where are they now?) How could they be so wrong about their origin?
            Secondly, why the “White supremacists” would reject Ashkenazim if they were in truth “Whites”? Why would they do this mistake? Ashkenazim speak a Germanic language, Yiddish, isn’t it? They are Germanics, right? Nordics, Aryans… The cousins of the German… Then the Holocaust was a fratricide… Never heard of this.
            3. You showed your surprise at my remark that the state of Israel could have been formed even without the Ashkenazim. Palestine is the place where Christianity originated and holds it’s most valuable holy places. Christianity takes precedence over Islam because it is many centuries older. Before Palestine was conquered by Arabs it belonged to a Christian state. Arab started their conquest from the Arabic peninsula, all other territories where today it is spoken Arabic and Islam is the state religion belonged to other nations before. The Islamists vow to reconquer Andalusia, the Balkans. To reconquer what? What did not belong to Arabs in the first place?…
            4. Using your style of arguing I think it is easier to argue that many people who consider themselves “Arabs” are not in fact descendants from the true Arabs. Speaking Arabic does not make one an Arab. My impression is that most of the people of the Maghreb, Egypt and the ME are not racially Arabs.

          • Helen4Yemen

            https://worldpeace365.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/clinton-livni.png

            Can you please tell me which one of the two looks
            ” Italian, Greek … Spanish (Latino)”?
            If you are to be taken seriously, you cannot make such
            silly comments.

          • Émile

            The one on the left looks Anglo or French to me. The one on the right I admit in having difficulties to pinpoint it to a single (or two) ethnicities but for sure I would say somewhere from a Southern European country, Balkans, Turkey and definitely Jews.

            Why definitely Jews? Whenever in Europe, where I live, I meet a person with a European look (superficially), a non-Ashkenazi surname name (not one ending in -stein, -berg, -sky, -vich, etc, you know ;-), but it is at the same time NOT GOOD-LOOKING AND INTELLIGENT I smell a… Jew. Tzipi Livni is not a good-looking woman while Hillary is. Ashkenazim may be the most intelligent race on earth but look-wise they are not “the chosen people”… You see, some feature of their look betrays them to be Jews, but you need experience with them to be aware of it. That features must be codified in their DNA.

          • Helen4Yemen
          • Émile

            Rubbish! When we talk of Jews as an ethnicity and not followers of a particular religion we always talk about Ashkenazim which constitute the majority of Jews today (80%). The one in the middle looks Ashkenazi to me. Obviously you can convert to Judaism and then you will be an Arab? (ethnicity/race) of Mosaic faith (religion).

          • Helen4Yemen

            https://i1.wp.com/worldpeace365.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/livni-hillary-amal.png?ssl=1&w=900

            Who looks European and who does not? We don’t really need pictures in the age of genetic science, But you have no credibility and I seek no further exchages.

          • Helen4Yemen
          • Helen4Yemen

            https://i2.wp.com/worldpeace365.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/dna-4-ashkenazi1.png?ssl=1&w=900

            What are the chances that Amal Clooney’s DNA will score
            99.9% European ancestry

        • Helen4Yemen
        • Helen4Yemen

          “The Ashkenazim resemble in look mostly the Mediterranean Europeans.”

          Stop peddling lies – Ashkenazi look just as European as George Bush. So you have two dark-skinned Ashkenazi – you can generalize based on two or four or six?

          https://worldpeace365.wordpress.com/2016/02/08/the-jews-in-pictures/

    • RoccoBarbella

      Ty Sachs is also prevalent among French Canadians.

      Jews are not a race. Anyone can be a Jew. Ivanka Trump is a Jew though conversion.

  • Fak_Zakaix

    “By his calculations, the original Ashkenazi settlement date was most likely between 900 and 1,150 years ago.”

    So Ashkenazim are a NEW ethnicity after all…

  • Fak_Zakaix

    “the Founding Fathers were Middle Eastern Jews who migrated to Europe and found their soulmates among indigenous Europeans”

    Why would any Christian woman have married a Jew?

    • Yeshayahu

      They had obviously converted before marrying.

    • 1harry2

      You are totally wrong, Mr. Zakaix. It is known fact that Jewish men married Italian women throughout the centuries, starting from the Jewish Diaspora in Rome before Jesus. Indeed, the women did convert , or were brought into Judaism This is why the Ashkenazim of whom I am one, have such a strong Italian DNA- on the matrilineal side. Italians in Sicily, especially before the reconquest of that land by Ferdinand often intermarried with Jews with no lethal consequences. Jews and Italians have been intermarrying for 20 centuries, at least. Why would a Christian woman have married a Jew? How about “Love.”
      But not once the Ashkenazim established themselves in Europe. If the Ashkenazim had Middle eastern founders it would show up in our DNA! It does not. The Ashkenazim were founded by a prehistoric European(Germanic?) group, who brought in Jews with Italian background- but not Middle eastern Jews, except those- who by way of the Sephardim- migrated up to Europe to join their “soulmates.” We are indigenous European, Mr. Fak- does that make us less worthy?
      We are not, except by way, of the Bible, Middle Eastern.
      Otherwise it would have shown up in my DNA. Modern, affordable, accurate DNA testing should, by now, have put to rest the myth of Middle eastern origins of the Ashkenazim!

      • Helen4Yemen

        Harry, I read all your comments with a great deal of interest and I had fun doing so. There is wisdom, perception and compassion exhibited in your writing. You were doing so well regarding your understanding about the roots of the Ashkenazi but in this comment, you seem to have gone backwards somewhat. Let me explain:

        1- ” It is known fact that Jewish men married Italian women throughout the centuries, starting from the Jewish Diaspora in Rome before Jesus. “ (a) There was no “Jewish Diaspora”, it is a myth. Would you happen to know who traveled, was it male or female and how many? How they traveled, what was departure and destination points and so on. There is no information – none. (b) If there were ‘Diasopora’, then amazing that no Ashkenzi scores anything barely more than 0.1 ME ancestry. Did the genes evaporate? (c) “Jewish men” can mean Ugandan, Indian, European, etc. If anybody married Italians, they were European men who practiced Judaism – and not people from the ME. (d) The reason the “Jews” men were marrying Italians was because they left all the ‘Israelite’ women behind? What happened to those women and babies and toddles and young ones? Where are they now? They seem to know what happened to those on the ‘Diaspora’ but nobody speaks about those left behind? Where are they now?

        2- ” Indeed, the women did convert , or were brought into Judaism This is why the Ashkenazim of whom I am one, have such a strong Italian DNA- on the matrilineal side. “ I do not know how you You can make such a generalization based on one dna report. I have seen many and I do not remember anything ‘Italian’. According to PBS, all Ashkenazi have a dna score between 96% to 98.5% Ashkenazi dna which is great indicator that the Ashkenazi are a people onto themselves. And the reason I keep hearing this ‘matrilineal side’ is to say that the ‘Israelite’ left their women behind. There is no credible supporting evidence that ‘Israelite’ were expelled or some of them were left behind. Otherwise, you have to explain why the Yemenis resemble Yemenis and the Europeans resemble other Europeans. You cannot have the belief that your ancestry is of European origin and at the same also also believe that you are the product of the ‘Diaspora’.

        3- ” Italians in Sicily, especially before the reconquest of that land by Ferdinand often intermarried with Jews with no lethal consequences. “ “Jews” are a people who practice Judaism, again, what you have in mind is the ‘diaspora’, where the need arises for the ‘Jewish men’ to find spouses since all female Jews were left behind.

        4- ” Jews and Italians have been intermarrying for 20 centuries, at least. Why would a Christian woman have married a Jew? How about “Love.” “ Italians are a people who live on the same land, who have the same language, same appearance, same customs and traditions. “Jews’ are like Muslims and Christians, they are Arab, European, Asian, and so on.

        5- ” If the Ashkenazim had Middle eastern founders it would show up in our DNA! It does not. “ True, but at the same time, you seem to believe in the ‘diaspora’ which would show show some ME dna and there is none in the Ashkenazi.

        6- ” The Ashkenazim were founded by a prehistoric European(Germanic?) group, “ The Ashkenazim are a group of Europeans who adopted Judaism – and because of that became isolated form non-Jewish Europeans.

        7- ” who brought in Jews with Italian background- but not Middle eastern Jews, except those- who by way of the Sephardim- migrated up to Europe to join their “soulmates.” “ You keep talking about Italians, there is no more Italian genetic connection the Ashkenazi have than with other Europeans. I have not seen evidence. What is your source?

        8- ” We are indigenous European, Mr. Fak- does that make us less worthy? “ Of course not! The best example I have been giving in recent days is to compare the dna of Bill Oreilly at 99.8% European with that of Dershowitz at 99.9% European. They are both equally European.

        9- ” We are not, except by way, of the Bible, Middle Eastern. “ The same for Christians and Muslims.

        10- ” Otherwise it would have shown up in my DNA. “ Correct! At 0% ME genes, it does not mean it evaporated, it simply means it was not there to begin with.

        11- ” Modern, affordable, accurate DNA testing should, by now, have put to rest the myth of Middle eastern origins of the Ashkenazim! “ I think even if God himself were to come down and certify to it that the 99.99% of Ashkenazi will never let go of the delusion of having ME ancestry.

        Ok, my friend, respond when you can, and I will do likewise.
        https://www.23andme.com/ancestry-composition-guide/

        • 1harry2

          Well, Ms. Helen,
          I might disagree with you about a few things. According to Ancestry.com- where I had my DNA done- Ashkenazim have about 2 % Italian DNA! Similarly, believe it or not, according to this source the average Ashkenazim has almost 2% Middle eastern- which is not significant.(many European groups have this). I am not so sure there was no Jewish Diaspora. According to Josephusand many other accounts, many Jews were sent into exile after Jerusalem was sacked. They had to go somewhere. Many went to other Middle eastern countries like Yemen and Syria, Egypt, etc. Jews were carried off as slaves into Sicily. So I will not deny the existence of a Diaspora. However, over generations, I believe, barely a trickle arrived into Northern Europe- a “trace”. If I had Jewish ancestors in Israel at the time of Jesus, and no infusions of Middle eastern blood for -say- 17 centuries, Middle eastern DNA would not show up in me.
          So, Ms. Helen, while I will agree with you that the Ashkenazim have an insignificant percentage of Middle eastern blood, I will not deny that there was, in fact, a group of people known as Israelites- who were Middle eastern- who went into exile, but whose DNA largely disappeared in northern and eastern Europe in the ensuing 20 centuries.
          May I ask you what you think happened to these Jews or Israelites after the Roman-Jewish Wars? They were not all killed.
          So, in the end, I would argue that despite the fact there is an insignificant percentage of this Middle eastern DNA left in the Ashkenazim, the Jews by virtue of their isolation and inbreeding constitute a more racialized religion than Moslems or Christians. The 3 most prominent Jewish ethnic strains are Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and Middle Eastern(Iraq, Syria, Iran, Yemen,etc)
          So you and I agree about some things but disagree about others.
          I can no more easily accept that the Ashkenazim are a Middle eastern people than I can accept that there were never any Jews in today’s land of Israel! But this was 20 centuries ago, and were it not for the religion of the Jews, as preserved in the Bible, any iota of a connection to this land would have vanished!
          Well, take care!
          Harry

        • JasonSteiner

          I don’t think it’s close to 99.9%. I know my family always considered ourselves white, not Middle Eastern. We knew our ancestors came from Russia and nobody speculated that they were originally Middle Eastern.

          Perhaps part of the reason my family never claimed we were Middle Eastern is how European we look, not a hint of Middle Eastern features.

          Being blue eyed and light skinned I expected my DNA to be less than 90% Ashkenazi. Instead it was 98.5%. If someone so extremely non-Middle Eastern looking as myself (I am perceived as the whitest of the white boys) can be fully Ashkenazi it makes it very easy for me to believe the Ashkenazi are and always have been European.

  • roderick starns

    i think its obvious that european jews look like europeans while algerian jews look like algerians

  • 1harry2

    Hold it… I don’t understand. I am an Ashkenazi Jew, and my DNA results which just came back indicate that I have NO Middle Eastern DNA, and this is supposed to be representative of Ashkenazi in general. Where, then, does the Middle eastern DNA show up in a profile that is 99 European, of which 93% is Jewish European, with no Middle eastern DNA. the 2 % Italian- the only non-Jewish DNA I have- makes sense, but where does the supposed Middle Eastern DNA come from. Is it just assumed to be part of the Jewish European DNA? Someone help me with this.

    • Yeshayahu

      The “European Jewish” DNA is automatically grouped into the “European” category in personal DNA tests. These individual DNA tests don’t actually determine the origins of the Ashkenazi DNA, they simply detect the Ashkenazi genes and automatically group them into the “European” category. That’s because Ashkenazim lived in Europe in recent times. Personal DNA tests like these aren’t so advanced as to be able to locate the origin of Ashkenazi DNA. That’s what academic genetic studies are for, which have determined through analysis that Ashkenazi DNA is basically half Middle Eastern and half European. So yes, the Middle Eastern DNA is assumed to be within the European Jewish DNA. Do you understand?

      • 1harry2

        Which academic genetic studies reveal that white European Jews such as myself have Middle Eastern roots? I cannot accept, by assumption, that I am Middle Eastern, although our inherited religion, I know, has its origin in the Middle East. Until I am shown otherwise, I have to accept the idea that I am just a white European , like the Irish, the Swedes, or the Polish, with even less hybrid influences.

        • Jonathan

          Well of ton of studies do, I mean, where to start?
          First of all there’s the study described in this article.
          Secondly there’s this study:
          http://www.livescience.com/47755-european-jews-are-30th-cousins.html
          Here’s a quote from it: “Further, that group of Jews who experienced this “bottleneck” was of approximately evenly mixed Middle Eastern and European descent.
          The findings bolster the mainstream view that the ancestors of European Jews were people from the Levant and local Europeans.”
          Thirdly, this one:
          http://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol_preprints/41/
          “We and others have argued on the basis of genome-wide data that the Ashkenazi Jewish population derives its ancestry from a combination of sources tracing to both Europe and the Middle East.”
          A fourth study:
          http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140909/ncomms5835/full/ncomms5835.html
          “Modelling of ancient histories for Ashkenazi Jews and European populations using their joint allele frequency spectrum determines AJ to be an even admixture of European and likely Middle Eastern origins.”
          So these are four studies that are basically in consensus that Ashkenazi Jews are an even Middle Eastern – European split.
          I invite you to thoroughly read these DNA studies when you have time.

        • Yeshayahu

          There’s also the fact that the majority of Ashkenazi men possess a Middle Eastern Y-Chromosome haplogroup. 40% of Ashkenazi males have the J haplogroup, which is often referred to as the “Arab haplogroup”. 20% of Ashkenazi males have the E1b1b1 haplogroup, which is from the Mid East and North Africa. Here’s an article about that. Scroll down to the section about Ashkenazi Y-DNA:
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews#Y-DNA_of_Ashkenazi_Jews

          • 1harry2

            Mr Yeshayahu,
            I don’t know where you get your statistics from. The J haplogroup which is common- up to 20% in the Arabian peninsula, is according to the research I have done, hardly more prevalent among Ashkenazim than the Irish. 40%? No way! Between 6 and 10 percent, and lower than that of the Irish and other groups from northern Europe.The 20% E1b1b1 haplogroup that you claim is representative of the Ashkenazim is equaled or surpassed by many European groups, especially in Albania, Kosovo and Montenegro- as well as Sicily.There is nothing distinctive about the Ashkenazim E!b1b1 linking it to the Middle east, even if it as high as 20 % as you claim.
            There is no data linking the Ashkenazim to the Middle east, in any statistically meaningful sense, as many European groups exceed the genetic Middle Eastern markers of the Ashkenazim
            Current findings indicate the Italian genetic associations, but nothing statistically significant with regard to the Middle East. The fact that Ashkenazim suffer from genetic disorders not commonly found in the Middle East suggests to me, in addition to the above data, that we are an isolated genetic group, whose origins remain undetermined, but are representative, from an empirical and physical perspective, of white European groups, a fact which has already been proven by genetic studies on the female side of the Ashkenazim.
            I would not , however, argue that this is true for the Sephardim , who I believe, originate in the Middle East

          • Yeshayahu

            First of all, you didn’t reply to Jonathan whose comment gave 3 DNA studies that found Ashkenazim have lots of Middle Eastern DNA.
            I’ll add a fourth:
            http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/news/.premium-1.626156
            As for the Y-Chromosome haplogroups, I provided the link to the article where I got my statistics from. You haven’t provided your source so where are you getting your statistics from?
            The J haplogroup is the most common haplogroup in the Middle East, just google a map of it. It’s especially concentrated in Arabia so perhaps that’s what you mean.
            The chart in the article I provided you with shows the Y-DNA findings of 5 studies on Ashkenazim. The findings vary slightly because of different individual samples, but they show that between 37% and 43% of Ashkenazim have J. Just look at the chart if you don’t believe me. According to the map 0% of Irish have J. J is almost unfound in Europe, unless you’re a Jew of course.
            The chart also shows that between 16% and 23% of Ashkenazim have E1b1b1, which originated in North Africa and the Middle East where it’s most common. The reason it’s common in Albania, Kosovo and Montenegro is because they have Middle Eastern DNA from the Ottoman era. So it represents Middle Eastern ancestry in them just like it does in Ashkenazim. Therefore around 60% of Ashkenazi males have a Middle Eastern Y-Chromosome.
            And that’s in addition to the findings of the genetic studies Jonathan brought.

          • Yeshayahu

            Also Harry (and please read my other comments first) the unique genetic disorders Ashkenazim have, certainly developed during Medieval times while they were already in Central-East Europe. So that’s irrelevant to the question of their origins because they developed more recently in their history, due to in-breeding and endogamy. The disorders have nothing to do with being Middle Eastern or not.
            As for a physical perspective, Ashkenazim are of course historically stereotyped for having dark curly hair and curved noses which are both Middle Eastern. I can name many examples of famous European Jews who look Middle Eastern, google Jeff Goldblum and Oded Fehr for example. David Silverman, Ed Miliband.

          • 1harry2

            Mr. Yeshayahu,
            There is so much contradictory info out there that it is almost impossible to get a consensus of any kind with regard to the origins of the Ashkenazim. One could easily build a case that (we) are descended from the Kazars since the genetic correlates with the Caucasus region are so strong, as they are with Italy, Greece, and the Middle East. A case could be made for common origins with the Polska Roma. You say that “Middle Eastern” would not show up in the “Ashkenazim” genetic group as identified by DNA group, through popular testings, but I disagree, as 2 to 3 percent of this gene pool DOES have a Middle Eastern base, although in my case it is only ”
            trace.” The tests are so accurate that they revealed, in me, a few percentage points of non-Jewish Italian, which my mother had long ago predicted, based on anecdotal legacies, her ancestral last name(“Volpe”),
            and visual appearances, and which have since been confirmed- almost unanimously -by genetic studies- for the Ashkenazim population as a whole.
            The studies are so accurate thatthey point to limited genetic interaction with the European groups around them as well, dispelling any notion I harbored that we were “Polish” or “Russian.” My ancestral grouping is “European Jewish.” When one factors in the non-Jewish Italian, and a little “West Russian” and even “Irish”(less than 1 %), I am 99.9% European. I am a white European individual.
            The question is: where did the DNA that makes up the European JEWISH DNA come from? You say : The Middle East. It’s not in my DNA, nor in the DNA of these popular studies to any noteworthy degree.. Could it be from a small, isolated European ethnic group or tribe that has not yet been identified, maybe in Germany where the term Ashkenazim had originated? The Polska Roma?
            True, that many Ashkenazim are swarthy, but this could be from breeding with Sephardim who surely moved into the Ashkenazi areas throughout the last few hundred years. Just about Jewish person I know is fair skinned, with light hair, and , especially, among the women, an overt intolerance for heat!
            If the original group of 400 or so Jews who are considered the founders of the Ashkenazim had a considerable share of Middle Eastern “blood” and knowing that this group more or less intermarried with one another producing one of the largest inbred(pure)white gene pools in the U.S, one could expect-in my opinion- a greater percentage of our DNA to be Middle Eastern. Recent studies have, indeed, shown that haplogroup K, which is prevalent among the Ashkenazim, has its roots in prehistoric Europe, another factor in my belief that much of the Ashkenazim DNA is European.
            But thank you for listening- and if you obtain any revelatory bits of info- or a “knock-out” punch please contact me!
            If you are Jewish, by the way, what does your DNA reveal?(I will try to comment on the links below, which seem, at points, to contradict other findings).

          • Yeshayahu

            Ok, you’re making a lot of fair points.
            The genetic relation with the Caucasus is indeed strong so perhaps you could posit that this reflects a portion of Khazar ancestry in Ashkenazim. However, I’m a little skeptical on this point because the Ashkenazim are genetically very close to the Southern Caucasus (especially Armenians and Georgians) but not so much with the Northern Caucasus. Khazaria was in the Northern Caucasus. Sephardic Jews are also genetically quite similar to Caucasus populations which further complicates things.

            Regarding the point about the popular genetic tests, consider this. The Gypsies are known to have originated from India from an analysis of their language (which is similar to Punjabi) as well as historical records. Of course Gypsies have been living in Europe for centuries by now though. According to posts by Gypsy individuals that I see online, when they take the 23andme test most of their ancestry comes out as either “Gypsy European” or “Unspecified European”, both of which are automatically grouped into the “European” category. And yet academic DNA studies have found that Gypsies still have a largely Indian ancestry. So in my opinion, it appears that these popular genetic tests are *accurate*, but not overly *advanced*. By that I mean it is able to identify that they have European Gyspy genes, but it cannot actually tell where these genes came from, and automatically groups them as “European” because they’ve been in Europe. So this is essentially analogous to what I’m saying with regards to Ashkenazi Jewish genes.

            I am Jewish but I haven’t taken a DNA test yet. I hope to buy one soon (maybe months or a couple of years) and I’ll be happy to tell you about the results then.

            I agree that there is definitely a lot of European DNA in Ashkenazim but I just think that one can build a strong case for a *portion* of their ancestry being Mid Eastern, based on those academic studies.

          • 1harry2

            You do mae an excellent point about the popular tests not being able to identify what are the components of European Jewish or the European Roma for that matter. What does this categorization mean, exactly, from a DNA standpoint?Were we to apply the same linguistic associations you use for the Roma(similarities to certain Indian groups), to the Ashkenazim , we could imply a German starting point, as Yiddish seems to have developed in Germany and spread into Eastern Europe. Don’t you think it is remarkable that this language sustained itself for centuries outside of its point of origin?
            I do hope you get your own study done. DNA.com was only about $99. I may go onto 23 and me.
            My wife’s own results, actually proved to be much more interesting than mine, and I cross-referenced the results and found great corroboration. For example, although Salvadoran, her DNA revealed only 6% Iberian. The 21% Native American was predictable. I knew she was a “Turco” but, surprisingly, she came up as only 26% Arabic(one grandparent was from Bethlehem-Christian Arab) and 28% was Greek! That was a shocker. But another website I learned that paternal grandmother was born in Greece. She showed 6 % Black- a big surprise- most of which is from Senegal and then I learned that it was from Senegal that most of the slaves bound for El Salvador came, and right to the region of her maternal grandmother. The part that I do not understand is her 14% Caucasus .(I had already accounted for her “Middle eastern” DNA on her father’s side).
            If you do get any further info regarding the DNA of the Ashkenazim-or your own- let me know. Good luck!
            Thanks.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Sephardic Jews are also genetically quite similar to Caucasus populations which further complicates things.”
            ___
            I prefer to be specific and just say Spanish-Portuguese or Arab Jews so that I know which group you have in mind. You are forgetting that Nigerian, Kenyan, Ugandan, Ethiopian Jews too say their origin is Palestine. Do they also resemble the Arabs? If white Europeans can claim to look Arab, why not Africans?

            No Ashkenazi is from the ME – not one, Accept this fact and move on.

          • Helen4Yemen

            “cannot actually tell where these genes came from, and automatically groups them as “European” because they’ve been in Europe. ”
            __
            You make no sense! There is a specific genetic group named ‘Ashkenazi, the same that refers to dna material that applies only to Ashkenazi and grouped under Europe. Are you saying they would group the dna of Indians who had lived in Europe for hundreds of years under “Europe”? Do you not know when you have gone way overboard in fabricating information that does not exist. Why are you so desperate to distance yourself from European ancestry?

          • Helen4Yemen

            “I agree that there is definitely a lot of European DNA in Ashkenazim but I just think that one can build a strong case for a *portion* of their ancestry being Mid Eastern, based on those academic studies.”
            ____
            Where do you build your stronge case with? All dna results for the Ashkenazi come at 99% European ancestry and 0% ME ancestry? How do you then stretch it from zero to ‘portion of their dna’? Do you not know the meaning of ZERO?

          • James Bond

            Hi, not sure if your goal is to troll all of these genetic forums or what, but the results of those tests compare to present day populations. So Jews in Europe may not have the markers that current people residing in the middle east have, but it certainly doesn’t rule out the possibility that there was a Jewish population who lived in the current middle east and those people left after being conquered and some of them went north and possibly mixed with some of the european population already there. DNA testing doesn’t refute or disprove history.

            But as for the political tone of your 1000 posts, the UN voted for the creation of the state of Israel. I understand you don’t like and you’re trying to find any reason why it shouldn’t exist. But it does exist and it’s a recognized country by almost every nation in the world and the UN. Of course, it’s also the home of Jews born in countries like Iraq and Iran who became hostile to Jews.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Countries that do not recognize the foreign Jews in Palestine:

            1- Bahrain
            2- Bolivia
            3- Brunei
            4- Chad
            5- Comoros
            6- Cuba
            7- Djibouti
            8- Guinea
            9- Indonesia
            10- Iran
            11- Iraq
            12- Kuwait
            13- Lebanon
            14- Libya
            15- Malaysia
            16- Mali
            17- Mauritania
            18- Morocco
            19- Nicaragua
            20- Niger
            21- North Korea
            22- Oman
            23- Pakistan
            24- Qatar
            25- Saudi Arabia
            26- Somalia
            27- Sudan
            28- Syria
            29- Tunisia
            30- U.A.E.
            31- Venezuela
            32- Yemen

          • Helen4Yemen

            But the Yemeni Jew does not share genetic markers with the snow white Jews of Europe, does he. You are are making a very silly case trying to deny DNA. Millions of Southern Europeans have very high levels of Middle East ancestry vs. 0% for the Ashkenazi.

            Yes, Jews did live on that land but they do not exist anymore. There are no Palestinian Jews. In 1851, there were only 13,000 Jews, (6,000 of them lived in Jerusalem) and they were all Yiddish-speaking Jews from Eastern Europe who had arrived in recent times. Jews had not lived on that land for many centuries.

            Palestine population

            Year – Muslim — Christian – Jews
            1851 – 300,000 – 27,000 – 13,000

          • Helen4Yemen

            “possibly mixed with some of the european population already there”

            The Ashkenazi are not mixed but one of the purest of white Europeans at 96% Ashkenazi DNA on average.

          • RoccoBarbella

            Mr. Bond, I don’t know Helen’s motive’s or whether she dislikes Israel or not. I’ve seen many of her posts.

            She makes extremely valid points backed up with DNA evidence and common sense.

            The European Jews are not showing ME DNA. Period. What they do show is that they are the pre-historic indigenous peoples of Europe who’ve, most likely, became Jews through conversion.

            It’s no secret that the reason for the resistance from “Jews” about their European DNA is because they so badly want to be the magical Jews of the Bible. This is what they’ve been told since childhood. They are not!

            I’m not saying that makes them any less Jewish. After all, being a Jew is a religious identity. So, anyone can be a Jew.

            Are there Jews from the ME? Yes. But they are not the Ashkenazi group.

          • Helen4Yemen

            Curved noses are Middle Eastern? I am MEastern and I am here to tell you that when I look at the Ashkenazi, I am looking at George Bush and Hillary Clinton, i.e. vividly European.

            https://worldpeace365.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/compare1071.png?w=768

            https://worldpeace365.wordpress.com/2016/02/08/the-jews-in-pictures/

          • Helen4Yemen

            “There’s also the fact that the majority of Ashkenazi men possess a Middle Eastern Y-Chromosome ”

            Alan Dershowitz is at 0% ME ancestry and so is Tony Kushner. Explain how Europeans with 99.9% European ancestry could as the same time have ME genes?

            Alan Dershowitz DNA
            98.50% Ashkenazi
            0.4% Southern European
            0.1% Balkan
            0.9% Non-Specific European
            0.1% South Asian
            99.9% European
            0.1% South Asian
            0.0% Middle East

            Tony Kushner
            97.50% Ashkenazi
            0.1% Finish
            0.1% Scandinavian
            2.2% Non-specific European
            0.1% East Asian
            99.9% European
            0.1% East Asian
            0.0% Middle East

      • Helen4Yemen

        “Ashkenazi DNA is basically half Middle Eastern and half European. So yes, the Middle Eastern DNA is assumed to be within the European Jewish DNA. Do you understand?”
        __
        Assumed? Assumed? By who? Science does not assume, does it? The human race is divided into 12 major genetic categories. You do notice that the Ashkenazi have their own genetic category within Europe also named “Ashkenazi’, right?

        1- West African
        2- East African
        3- Central & South African
        4- Native American
        5- East Asian
        6- Southeast Asian
        7- Northwestern European
        8- Southern European
        9- Eastern European
        10- Ashkenazi
        11- Middle Eastern
        12- North African

  • JasonSteiner

    Of the remaining 1.5%, 1.3% of it is other European from Scandinavia to Southern Europe. 0.2% was Asian (Chinese and Japanese). This was a big surprise. I never would have guessed. I am 0% Middle Eastern. My dna profile looks nothing like a Middle Eastern person.

    I have found my closest relatives on 23andme and have been communicating with some of them. None of them discuss or have a problem with the 0% middle eastern. I don’t think it’s a big thing with most Jews.

    There are two groups who insist AshkenaziJews aren’t white and ironically they are polar opposites from each other. Very liberal, politically active SJW type Jews and some (but not all) white nationalist types.

  • JasonSteiner

    Most American Jews don’t think much about Palestine one way or another. There is even a segment of liberal Jews who like Palestine better than Israel. That’s because they are liberals first and agree with whatever liberals say.

  • RoccoBarbella

    Helen could you respond to me, please?

    I’m arguing on another website with a Jewish woman who is adamant ALL Jews are from the ME. I want your help in responding if you would be so kind.

    • Helen4Yemen

      Where is the link for the website …?

      • RoccoBarbella

        The website is “Truthrevolt.org” the article is “Why are Jews losing the war on college campuses”

        Scroll down and you’ll see the exchange.

        Thanks