Sorry, Paleo-dieters: Big human brain needs carbs to evolve

A new study, co-written by researchers from the University of Sydney, challenges the belief that meat deserves all the credit [for the evolution of the human brain].

Rather, the researchers say, starchy carbohydrates “were essential for the evolution” of the human brain nearly 1 million years ago. The human brain uses as much as 25 percent of the body’s energy and up to 60 percent of blood glucose, the researchers say. Such a glucose and energy-hungry brain was unlikely to develop on a low-carbohydrate diet.

“The research is a blow to advocates of the Paleo diet, which shuns starch-rich vegetables and grains,” the University of Sydney says.

Instead of the low-carb, no-grain Paleo diet for optimal health, the authors highlight the importance of including old-school starchy foods such as potatoes, taro, yams and sweet potatoes. They also advocate eating more recently introduced starchy grains such as wheat, rye, barley, corn, oats, quinoa and millet.

“While many Paleo diet advocates avoid carb-containing foods, this research and from other palaeontologists show that, in fact, most Paleo diets were moderate in carbohydrate not low,” McMillan says. “In fact, Loren Cordain’s [the founder of the Paleo movement] own paper showed that a true Paleo diet was closer to a Mediterranean diet than to a low-carb one.”

The GLP aggregated and excerpted this blog/article to reflect the diversity of news, opinion and analysis. Read full, original post: Meat-brained humans? Paleo cops a punch as researchers highlight importance of carbs for human evolution

The GLP aggregated and excerpted this article to reflect the diversity of news, opinion, and analysis. Click the link above to read the full, original article.

133 thoughts on “Sorry, Paleo-dieters: Big human brain needs carbs to evolve”

  1. Nowhere in the scientific article do the authors advocate eating wheat, rye or other grains as stated in this article. Come on let’s read the article first.

  2. Of course our paleo ancestors ate carbs. I have no idea where the popular press got the idea they did not. Thus the headline is falsely accusatory, and misleading… which is standard fare for contemporary “journalists.” You also avoid another competing theory and research that says access to high-quality protein (such as fish) spurred big brain development. In short your article is ignorant, again in keeping with modern journalistic standards. I suspect it is asking too much for you to actually know something about what you write about.

  3. Sorry gentic literacy project…

    Its not much of a blow…

    Researchers in Sydney should start by looking up ketosis… No need for carbs.

    The body works excellently on fatty acids and the brain works a lot more efficiently on ketones than it does on glucose, so there is no need to look for an explanation of where the large amounts of energy needed by the body and the brain came from, its called fat.

    aaaand Paleo is about eating a diet which most closely resembles that to which we have adapted to. I have never heard of Paleo being the choice of menu because its what makes us human.

      • Sorry, what? What makes you think glucose is a natural form of energy? It wasn’t widely available until farming was introduced. Ketosis has been shown to reverse many of the damages that a starch diet creates.

        Here’s some proof for you:
        https://proteinpower.com/drmike/2007/07/01/obesity-in-ancient-egypt/

        and here:
        http://brighterbrains.org/articles/entry/ketosis-makes-your-brain-work-better-its-why-dave-asprey-puts-butter-in-his

        These two articles completely refute Sarah Berry’s garbage.

        • So are you saying humans only began eating plants and fruits after agriculture?

          When we are talking about glucose my friend you should include carbs, because your body actually breaks the long chains of sugars called carbs into glucose to fuel your brain and your muscles

          Your article about ancient mummies as if they represent ancient egyptian diet is so far off, Kings and queens always ate animals, that is part of history in all cultures and that is why they suffered from heart disease, calcium defficiency and obesity… by looking the facts you pointed out it does seem you are favouring my argument

          And also
          there is a exact quote in your second article:

          “For those of you who don’t know, ketosis is what it is called when the body switches over from burning glucose (the kind of sugar our body uses as fuel) to burning an alternate fuel called ketones”

          Your own article says glucose is our primary source of energy

          • glucose is only your primary source of fuel if you eat a high carb diet.

            If you eat a ketogenic diet or fast, ketones and fatty acids are your primary source of energy. Its relative to the situation.

            The reason glucose is used before fat isnt because the body “prefers” to use glucose, it is because high levels of glucose are toxic and so the body needs to remove glucose from the blood stream as fast as possible.

            fruits were relatively scarce up until agriculture and even then they were not as sweet as the modern varieties. In hunter gatherer societies you would have had a glut of fruit around the end of the summer for a few weeks while the fruit was ripening on the tree and then little more for the rest of the year.

            also the vegetables that our hunter gatherer ancestors ate were mostly leaves and shoots, they didnt have the selection that we have now either. most of the calories would have come from animal products. this is uncontroversial and well understood in anthropology.

          • Glucose toxic? Really how exactly? We as humans need carbohydrates to live but they are toxic? I am sorry I don’t buy it. If they were I’d feel “toxic” eating fruit, brown rice, quinoa, potatos. But I DO NOT. I feel centered. I feel nourished. I feel satisfied. Grounded. I feel steady energy. I like what Medical Medium says about fruit. Fruit is necessary for our health. We should have fruit everyday in every season. Do not fear fruit. The fruit sugars in fruit are not the same as regular sugar…because there is a complex nutritional profile in fruit. You do ahead, shun fruit…I’ll eat a lot and I’ll thrive and look younger and be more fertile etc.

          • hyperglycemia
            glucose in “high levels” which is exactly what i said in my previous comment is toxic…

            http://www.webmd.com/diabetes/guide/diabetes-hyperglycemia

            this is really basic knowledge on nutrition…

            and by the way… we dont “need” dietary carbohydrates to live. There are essential fatty acids, essential vitamins and essential minerals…

            there is no such thing as an “essential carbohydrate”.
            Our body can make the little glucose it needs through gluconeogenesis and as I have already pointed out ad nauseum can get by just fine on fatty acids and ketones.

            Question for you…
            If our body “needs” carbohydrates as you put it.

            Why does it keep its reserve energy stores in the form of fat?

          • I eat grains all the time and I don’t have any blood sugar issues. You know what causes blood sugar issues? One of them is caffeine. Caffeine messes with the hormones which makes it harder for the endocrine system to respond to carbohydrates. Also the other item is FAT. Too much fat coats the cells and make them unable to release insulin. I am not talking pies, cookies, bagels and pancakes here. I am talking about potatos, rice, quinoa, rye, etc that will give you stable energy. Why? Because they are not 100% carbohydrate. They eat have protein, a little bit of fact and other nutrients that make them assimilate. And yes you need carbs.

          • Please provide some proof to your claim:
            “Too much fat coats the cells and make them unable to release insulin.”

            All of your cells are coated in fat…that is what your cell membranes are made of…
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_membrane

            type II diabetes isnt an issue with cells not being able to release enough insulin because they are coated in fat(which they are), its that your body becomes insensitive to the insulin. Had you of bothered to take 5 minutes to read the link about diabetes I left you, you would now know this.

            you should really look some of this stuff up before parroting off such rubbish almost…

            “I eat grains all the time and I don’t have any blood sugar issues.”…

            Once again…. I never said that you did…

            You keep on going back to the “grain” thing as the main part of your argument against me and its not an argument that I have even made…

          • I like how you posted an article as evidence. Best I can tell you is this article is not accurate. Read more articles.

            You wrote and the article made that claim, “This group had twice the blood sugar levels than the high-carb group.”

            That claim is not true and I believe anyone can prove it. The article claims, “The high-carb group ate pastries, sugar, candy, bread, baked potatoes, syrup, rice, and oatmeal.”

            Ok so there is two groups. One that ate high fat and one that ate everything listed above.

            If you took a blood sample from people from both groups before they ate the meals. Then took another blood sample 1 hour after they ate there meals.

            Which group would have elevated blood sugar an hour after there meals?

            The high fat group or the high carb group?

            Once you get that answer you can figure out all other answers.

            One more thing, the article says,
            The Cause of Insulin Resistance

            What’s gumming up the door locks on our muscle cells, preventing insulin from letting glucose in?

            It’s fat.

            In life, that is not how things work. For instance, an Alcoholic drinks alcohol. As he drinks more alcohol his tolerance goes up. That is how it works for everything in life.

            Insulin resistance is the same, insulin resistance happens because of too much insulin. The tolerance of the cell to insulin has gone up, like the alcoholic is to alcohol.

            The cell requires more insulin now because it is insulin resistance. Pretty much the cells tolerance went up.

            Just like the alcoholic. The alcoholic requires more alcohol now because it is alcohol resistance. Pretty much the alcoholic’s tolerance went up.

          • “In studies performed as early as the 1930s”

            That’s pretty much all you need to know, to know that the studies are bullshit. It explains why you’re being so thick-headed. Those studies were proven wrong a long time ago.

            https://chriskresser.com/new-study-puts-final-nail-in-the-saturated-fat-causes-heart-disease-coffin/

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/17/how-trans-fats-just-banned-were-once-touted-as-the-healthy-alternative/

            Those studies mentioned in the article used trans fats.

          • Hold on, I am not of person to comment on the internet but your comments are misleading to people so I signed up just to correct you. Im give you a mini physiology class, first you said,

            “Too much fat coats the cells and make them unable to release insulin.”

            The cell membrane is made up of phospholipids, glycolipids, and cholesterol. Pretty much fat. Cells don’t release insulin, the pancreas does, Insulin is the lock and key to the cell. Insulin opens the cell for glucose to enter. Youtube it.

            Another thing is our bodies technically don’t need carbs. If the body needed glucose, it can create it or use its bodies stores of fat as energy. I think I read LUKE in a comment all the way up top of comment section, a slim person has 40000 calories in energy stored. That’s True. If the body also needed glucose, it can convert protein into glucose through a process called gluconeogenesis in the liver.

            I have been reading and everything this Luke guy is saying is correct.

          • This is how fat effects the ability of the body to release insulin: http://www.forksoverknives.com/fat-insulin-resistance-blood-sugar/

            It’s OK if you think we weren’t meant to live on carbs. Go ahead. But I’ll be like high carb hannah on youtube and the millions of other whole food high carbohydrate people eating a natural foods diet…that remain slim, remain healthy. In fact I am doing it now. Close to 50, 117 pounds…great numbers. We might as well close this conversation…I gave you proof…there is also the The China Study book that is the largest epidemiological study EVER on the effects of meat and dairy on health. Cultures, throughout time, that have eaten a high carbohydrate natural diet, have good health. On every level meat, dairy and high fat create less health.. Don’t believe, fine, your choice….but it is by far the best study out there on the topic.
            http://www.amazon.com/China-Study-Comprehensive-Nutrition-Implications/dp/1932100660?ie=UTF8&keywords=the%20china%20study&qid=1465279511&ref_=sr_1_1&s=books&sr=1-1

          • Caffeine, I am assuming your talking about coffee or tea. OK, I’m going to say caffeine is a substance, that is a whole different topic. Caffeine has zero grams of sugar. For instance if you google coffee nutritional value, it will say sugar 0g or carbs 0 grams. Caffeine has nothing to do with blood sugar. The caffeine molecule sits perfectly in a certain receptor in your brain but that is another topic.

          • Not true Paul. Caffeine has no sugar yes but definitely effects blood sugar. That is because caffeine effects the hormone system, stresses it, making it less able to deal with blood sugar. In fact caffeine is related to hypoglycemia. Check out the chapter of this in “Caffeine Blues”. http://www.amazon.com/Caffeine-Blues-Hidden-Dangers-Americas/dp/0446673919?ie=UTF8&keywords=Caffeine%20Blues&qid=1465279702&ref_=sr_1_1&s=books&sr=1-1

            Also diabetes is NOT about carbs really it’s about other things…like fat, and caffeine. A person can eat a carb diet, and all rice diet, and actually cure their diseases. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plpiRcVMbg0

          • Dr. McDougal is an idiot. Makes sense you follow him. He’s the doctor that says Vitamin D is bad for you.

          • Right. But it’s not caused by carbs. It’s caused by the body not able to make appropriate insulin. What causes that? Too much fat. Too much caffeine and maybe other factors. But it’s not the carbs that are at fault.

          • Here is another comment where your very emotional. lol

            He didn’t say it was caused by carbs.

            Your emotional belief is so strong!

            Everything he is saying is true. You couldn’t even answer his question. His physiology is accurate

            Your belief is so strong, i don’t get it. You emotional love carbs that much.Your like a die hard carb fan.

            Luke is sharing knowledge, your just sharing what you think or feel.

            Read what you wrote again, I just did. I learned that you don’t like caffeine either. That is what I learned

            I just reread what you wrote again. I realize
            You didn’t learn nothing.
            Your to busy focused on your belief, gosh darn it
            Learn something!

            What he says is true. The human body doesn’t need carbohydrates to survive. It can create glucose from protein through a process called gluconeogenesis.

            You didn’t learn nothing! I just saw another comment you made, i am going to comment on that too.

          • Ahahaha. You’re actually partially right, but you’re as wrong as wrong can be. The ‘fats’ that cause that are denatured and hydrogenated fats. Either rancid mono-unsaturates or hydrogenated saturated trans fats. The stuff that comes out of the modern deep fryer. You really need to bring your thinking about 50 years up to the present.

          • You need to listen to what Luke is saying, He is giving you a free Physiology class. Glucose is toxic, the body releases insulin immediately to remove it from your blood stream. What do you think a diabetic is, it is a person that has been poisoned by too much glucose.

            Read what Luke wrote below, its true if the body needed glucose, it can create glucose in the liver in a process called gluconeogenisis. What Luke is saying is true. This is how the human body works

          • If glucose is bad for us then all human foods that contain carbs, which is the vaste majority of them that humans have survived on for millennial is “bad” for them. This would include all fruits, beans, grains, most vegetables and only meat and dairy would be OK with your view. Except they aren’t. The cultures that have relied on complex carbs for their fuel have been the healthiest, longest living humans on the planet.

          • I learned something at the post at the top by Paul Hughs. I watch the video he posted and youtube some other ones.

            The fruits, beans, and vegetables that we have now didn’t exist before. Everything has been created to be very potent. Like very sugary, like having larger quantity of the original. For instance broccoli was more of a flower. Watch the videos.

            I don’t understand what you wrote completely but I analyzed our teeth and digestive system. We are definitely herbivores. One more factor though, we have large brains. I believe to evolve into having large brains our food must have been calorie dense. I believe it must have been from fat and protein. No offense to your love of carbs. Im making an intelligent assumption.

            Here is an article, I wanted to share. I like this article because It is from bodybuilding.com. We all know how body builders love there carbs. That is why I enjoyed this article so much because it was written by a carb loving group of people. Reading an article from a site of people that LOVE there carbs is wonderful. I feel it is a truthful article

            http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/grains_coverup.htm

            Here is video. Im not claiming this is true. You can make your own opinion
            https://youtu.be/CDHtSHbzlOc

          • You need to reread two comments above.

            Luke writes,

            The reason glucose is used before fat isnt because the body “prefers” to use glucose, it is because high levels of glucose are toxic and so the body needs to remove glucose from the blood stream as fast as possible.

            It’s true, when glucose enters the bloodstream. You blood becomes maple syrup. The body has to remove it quickly because if your blood stays like maple syrup, it becomes toxic. That is why diabetics can have there legs amputated because there blood is like maple syrup for too long. Luke is correct! he states,the body needs to remove glucose from the blood stream as fast as possible. He is not attacking anything. He is talking physiology, a course I know you haven’t taken.

            Now read what you wrote, It is very emotional, you sound like you are defending yourself. Thing is no one is attacking you. No one said anything bad to make you feel that way.

            Your beliefs are so strong, that you think people are against you. I read all Lukes post. He is legitimate, seems like a respectful intelligent person that makes a good point without offending anyone.

            What you write is what you think. For Instance, you wrote,

            You do ahead, shun fruit…I’ll eat a lot and I’ll thrive and look younger and be more fertile etc

            Who are you talking too?

            Do you hate science that much? I didn’t understand you until someone responded to a youtube comment I wrote on that McDougall guy. Ill copy and paste for you.

            Person said,
            But, yes, I have plenty plenty PLENTY of friends that have parents that still believe in the “carbs good” mantra and ate cookies and bread like mad and have Type 2 Diabetes because of it… and they’ve continued eating rice and sugar and are currently on the verge of having their feet lopped off (they’re black with necrosis in the toes), kidneys removed, and various vision maladies. And when that happens they continue to reduce their protein/fat intake.

            Im showing you this to send you a message.
            Don’t think like his friends parents!
            There belief is so strong they have lost a kidney and soon a foot

            Right now your going to think, carbs isn’t bad bla bla bla. Then I am going to answer, Yeah your right. Carbs aren’t bad.

            But when a diabetic puts glucose into there blood and there bodies can’t remove it. It becomes toxic. To say it in a way where you don’t need to get defensive.

            I will say its not because of the carbs, its because there bodies can’t remove glucose from there blood anymore.

            Saying it like that should make you happy.

          • Why do you want to follow hunter gatherers? They are not the pinnacle of human life! They are on the “low” side and they didn’t live long. How foolish! I’ll take how the Asians live with lots of rice, vegetables over the lowly hunter gatherer. Good luck with that.

    • Civilization did not begin to flourish and develop culturally until we had grain crops. Also, why would you emulate the paleo diet when the paleo people were not developed? They are not the people to aspire to. And where do you get your ideas about the brain needing ketones? It’s common knowledge the brain needs glucose.

        • I eat lots of carbs…healthy carbs…such as rice, potatos, beans fruits and vegetables. I don’t eat any meat or dairy and haven’t for decades. I have a BMI of 19. Also I notice in the morning, my brain is not fully “turned on” until I have a piece of fruit. Actually my brain is on it’s when I have some natural sugar…that it can really focus.

          • yes, that is because your brain is dependant on the glucose from your diet and isnt very efficient at using your stored body fat for energy.

            One of the main things you will hear from people on the ketogenic diet is the enhanced cognition and lack of ups and downs due to your body having access to all your stored fat for energy. Even a slim person has up to 40000 calories worth of energy stored that is available to them all the time which is why you feel less need to eat every few hours too.

            its fine you can eat a certain amount of carbs and be healthy especially if you are eating a whole foods diet, no one is saying that the ketogenic diet is the only healthy way to eat.

          • Oh sure. No I am not dependant. It’s natural. You don’t know my brain. You are just anti carb because you guys don’t know the difference between natural whole carbs and refined. YOu don’t know if I have “ups and downs”. You know what did cause a bit of a down? Caffeine, not carbs. My dad did ketogenic he had horrible breath. It is not healthy. It’s gross.’

          • you said yourself “my brain is not fully “turned on” until I have a piece of fruit.”… that is because your body is not good or used to using your fat reserves for energy…That is a fact that anyone with even a limited amount of knowledge on nutrition will know…

            Im not anti carb… I eat rice, potatoes, vegetables etc… Where are you getting your information about me from? Ohh thats right, you are making assumptions about me based on nothing…hence why all of your assumptions are wrong.

            I never said “you” have ups and downs I said: “One of the main things you will hear from people on the ketogenic diet
            is the enhanced cognition and lack of ups and downs due to your body
            having access to all your stored fat for energy. ” and in the sentence when I say “you” I dont mean you directly but anyone in that situation.

            The fact that your father had horrible breath isnt proof that the ketogenic diet isnt healthy.

          • It’s not just my father. It’s others. And my brain works fine without the fruit I just notice it’s better with it.

          • I never said your brain didnt work fine without fruit….. you did…

            “my brain is not fully “turned on” until I have a piece of fruit.”…

            see how this works?

          • It’s not turned on until you eat anything, because you’re fueling your brain…You don’t eat while you’re asleep so you don’t have enough energy going to the brain. What matters is which type of fuel is the most efficient, especially in the long term.

          • I never said they did, and I never said I was Paleo either if that is what you are trying to infer…

            do you not see this recurring pattern where you try to prove yourself right or me wrong by countering an argument that I havent made?

            You do it over and over again.

            you should really stop making assumptions and try to stick to the facts…. you might have better luck like that as your observational and reading and comprehension skills are terrible..

            try again…

      • Agriculture gave us time to focus our energy on things other than just surviving which is great, but it didnt do us any favours in regards to health through nutrition.

        For 99.9% of human evolution we have been hunter gatherers. You want to eat a diet that most closely resembles that to which you have adapted to and by that i mean follow the same patterns, not eat exactly the same way as they did. That is impossible because most of the food we eat now didnt even exist for our hunter gatherer ancestors.

        look up “diseases of Civilization” or “western diets” and the impact that the western diet has had on indigenous populations. Weston A. Price is a good place to start. Most of the diseases we die from didnt exist either for our hunter gatherer ancestors. And please dont come with the “they only lived till they were 30 answer” because that just shows how little people understand about statistics…

        Its basic nutritional science that the brain can also work on ketones…
        Careful with “common knowledge”, it is often only part of the story and a lot of the time wrong.

        Common knowledge trumped by 30 seconds of reading on wikipedia..

        “if the diet is changed from one that is high in carbohydrates
        to one that does not provide sufficient carbohydrate to replenish
        glycogen stores, the body goes through a set of stages to enter ketosis.
        During the initial stages of this process, blood glucose levels are
        maintained through gluconeogenesis, and the adult brain
        does not burn ketones. However, the brain makes immediate use of
        ketones for lipid synthesis in the brain. After about 48 hours of this
        process, the brain starts burning ketones in order to more directly use
        the energy from the fat stores that are being depended upon, and to
        reserve the glucose only for its absolute needs, thus avoiding the
        depletion of the body’s protein store in the muscles.[14]”

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis

        • Yes Western diets are known to be unhealthy but it’s not due to natural grains. It’s due to sugar, processed foods, processed grains, pies, cakes, candies, too much meat, too much dairy (I think both of the later do us no favors), too much alcohol not enough vegetables and fruits. All long term healthy populations thru verifiable history had a basis of grains. Not processed grains but things like rice, oats, rye, potatos. These people were healthy and strong…we on the other hand eat too much fat, too much non foods and not enough vegetables and fruits. If grains were bad all Asians would be sickly and unhealthy…not the case. Their traditional diet serves them.

          • “Yes Western diets are known to be unhealthy but it’s not due to natural grains.”

            I never said it was…

            maybe you are having another discussion on a different site and you are getting a little confused because you keep on debating arguments that I havent made…

          • Reading what you write, I feel you are pretty emotional. You list items that you think are bad in your mind or what you have been taught or marketed to about. Ok , I have to agree with you, people are unhealthy due to sugar. Sugar becomes glucose and enters into the blood stream quickly. I don’t understand what your trying to say, but rice, oats, rye and potatoes are all processed foods that eventually become glucose. For instance, rice is suppose to come with a toxic outer shell that was processed to remove the shell. Rice in itself has no nutrients.

            Ok with you asian comments, Asian live in a third world country. They eat what they can. They don’t eat a lot of rice. They can’t afford it. They don’t get sick because they don’t eat much or you may say, they don’t eat a lot of carbs. Here ill write a simple equation for you to understand

            Too much carbs= getting sick

            Diabetes, high triglycerides, high cholesterol, the hormone imbalance alone gets you sick. For instance, too much carbs can equal high blood glucose, causing high cortisol levels, causing insulin resistance, causing high triglycerides levels, then high cholesterol then causing diabetes.

            The example above sounds ridiculous but its true. That is the order that it usually occurs in. A diabetic is not just high blood sugar by itself. It usually comes as a package.

            All trickling from eating too much carbs/sugar

          • You are so wrong about rice not having nutrients. And to say oats and rye are processed…yeah sure. These are foods that healthy populations for time immortal have thrived and survived on.

            You are wrong about too much carbs that makes you sick. Nope. Maybe too many truly processed carbs like cakes, cookies, pastries, white sugar, bagels, and the like but not rice. A person can eat lots of rice and not get sick. And oats. And rye.

            No it’s not the carbs that are causing high insulin levels it’s the fat. http://www.forksoverknives.com/fat-insulin-resistance-blood-sugar/

          • i like oats too and so does every other body builder. Those are low GI foods. There great. The other foods that you listed, cakes, cookies, pastries, white sugar, bagels, are even worse.

            And your right, A person can eat lots of rice and not get sick. Thats true also.

            That article you posted is false. You can test it yourself.

            What happens to your blood glucose 1 hour after you eat high carbs?

            What happens to your blood glucose 1 hour after you eat fat?

            When is insulin released? When you eat what?

            Does fat make cause the pancreas to release insulin?

            So if you ate butter and checked your blood glucose later. Will you have glucose in your blood? Will your insulin level go higher?

            So if you ate pastries, sugar, candy, bread, baked potatoes, syrup, rice, and oatmeal and checked your blood glucose later. Will you have glucose in your blood? Will your insulin level go higher?

            After you run those test or answer those questions.

            I am going to make a claim,

            It’s not the carbs that are causing high insulin levels it’s the fat.
            Then I’m going to list a website that makes claims and doesn’t talk about any physiology.
            http://www.forksoverknives.com/fat-insulin-resistance-blood-sugar/

            Cells are made of fat. Google what is the brain made of?

            What is testosterone made of?

            What you don’t understand is everyone used to view things like you. We understand your views. Everyone went through the low fat craze. I could be two sided. I have been on both sides and experimented the side that you arguing against. I have seen both side and went to school for this and have experimented on myself.

            Read what this guy Luke is saying, He know s what he is talking about. He speaks the truth.

            Ill give you an example, pretend that you are a diabetic type 2. Take a course on diabetes course through your insurance. In that course, they will give you a list of how to eat. I have the Kaiser list. It lists everything out to be 15 gram carbohydrate portions. It says you can have 45 grams- 60 grams of carbs per meals and 2 snacks at 15 grams in between meals.

            Why do they educate you to eat carbs?
            Do you think a diabetic can eat carbs?

            They also prescribe you two medications. it is called metformin. Which makes the cell more sensitive. Then one more pill called glipzide. It makes your pancreas secret more insulin before you have a meal.

            Why do you think the class tells you can eat carbs?
            What do you think happens to that person when they test there blood glucose after eating what the diabetes class told you to eat?

            Back to the question, do you think a diabetic can eat carbs?

            Do you think they talk about FAT during the diabetes course?

            Does FAT have anything to do with Insulin?

            Does FAT have anything to do with Sugar?

            During the diabetes course do you think they even mention FAT?

          • Im going to reply twice. Here is the site you used as evidence. Read it again

            It states,
            The Cause of Insulin Resistance

            What’s gumming up the door locks on our muscle cells, preventing insulin from letting glucose in?

            It’s fat.

            Here is something strange already, they are talking about a muscle cell. Why a muscle cell?
            Why can’t it just say,
            What’s gumming up the door locks on our CELLS, preventing insulin from letting glucose in?

            The article is already screwy talking about muscle cells.

            Why can’t they make that claim towards a cell?
            Yeah why just a muscle cell, what about all the other cells?

            So its not gumming up the door locks on normal cells? The article you mentioned is so great, what about the other cells?

            Do you have glucose meter to test your blood? If not buy one, tests the claims yourself.

            Put the money where your claim is.

            Test it then write me back if this article is true. Here is the website with claims, http://www.forksoverknives.com/fat-insulin-resistance-blood-sugar/

            Run the test!

          • You need to read the comment section underneath the article you posted. lol

            http://www.forksoverknives.com/fat-insulin-resistance-blood-sugar/

            I like the comment in regards to Timothy Davis.

            The guy underneath replies, (Wyatt Patterson)

            Timothy Davis how do you know you were getting dangerous coronary disease? Were your blood lips completely out of wack or is it frear driven?

            No response lol

            Because the Wyatt Patterson response is legit

            Solie67 you posted the article,

            Read the responses before you make your claim.

            Here is the website you told us to read

            http://www.forksoverknives.com/fat-insulin-resistance-blood-sugar/

            Scroll to the bottom and lets see what the diabetes type 2’s have to say

            here Ill copy one for you

            Celia Wheaton

            Wow. This is shocking. You want to make your insulin resistence worse? Eat all the carbs. The only food that does NOT raise blood glucose or insulin is fat. Get yourself a blood glucose meter and give it a try. Eat an avocado and test at 30 mins and 1 hour. Eat dry toast and jam and repeat. You decide. This article is ridiculously wrong!

            Like · Reply · 8 · Feb 29, 2016 2:32am

          • People are ignorant. They don’t want to believe this. John McDougall and others who are actually healing thousands of people of disease with a high starch/carb diet are proving this.

          • We are supposed to have glucose. Glucose isn’t the problem it’s the body inability to release insulin that is the problem. And how is that caused? By fat for one. Fat interferes with the body’s ability to release the needed insulin and thus the blood sugar issues. Also when you eat complex carbs you are not just getting carbohydrates you are getting some protein, a tiny bit of fat, and many nutrients to help mitigate blood sugar spikes. Even white rice has many other nutrients that make it a good food. What article are you referring to that is wrong?

          • Dr. Gregor bases his ideas on facts. People do not know the whole story about diabetes…lots of ignorance out there.

            Yes, I am going to say it’s true. I don’t have diabetes but I notice that when I eat a lot of fat in a meal or have significant caffeine that day, my blood sugar is effected. Specifically I’d feel this blood sugar drop around 2 PM. Now that I’ve changed a bit my blood sugar is more even.

          • NOPE! Carbohydrates are NOT the cause of diabetes! It’s other factors like fat and maybe even caffeine. Look at this study of the “Rice Diet”. The rice diet heals us of disease. Even with sugar mixed in! Truly there is so much ignorance on the real cause of diabetes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plpiRcVMbg0

          • I was going to say something nice but I started the video. I am only 30 seconds in and the video you used is terrible. The video hasn’t even started yet and my opinion of the guy is he is an idiot.

            90% carbs, 5% fat 5% protein

            A screen pops up and it says, “His diet cured type 2 diabetes 100% of the time, reversed heart disease and cured a host of common degenerative diseases.

            You need to scroll down and read the comments to understand diabetes

            http://www.forksoverknives.com/fat-insulin-resistance-blood-sugar/

            Show this video to any diabetic type 2 and within 10 seconds, even before watching the video.

            Diabetes type 2’s will say bull shit!

            Within 5 seconds its says 90% carbs… his diet cured type 2 diabetes

            Do you know what a carb does to a diabetes type 2?

            All type 2 cases are different, some are worse than others but i will make one up for you as an example.

            A diabetic type 2 can eat 30 grams of carbs, within an hour his blood glucose can jump from lets say 110 to 250.

            That is like having syrup in your blood

          • Actually diabetes is not about carbs. Other factors cause it if you are eating natural complex carbs.

            Have you looked up who John McDougall is? He is a trained doctor but decided to go the other way to heal people. He’s healed thousands of people from heart disease, diabetes and other problems that come from a high fat/high meat diet. He’s been healing people for 30 years so he knows what he is doing. https://www.drmcdougall.com/about/dr-john-mcdougall/

            As much as you say he is an “idiot” he has proven over and over again that he is right:

            Dr. McDougall is the founder and director of the nationally renowned McDougall Program: a ten-day residential program that he and Mary McDougall host at a luxury resort in Santa Rosa, CA where medical miracles occur through diet and lifestyle changes. In addition to her formal training as a nurse, Mary McDougall provides many of the delicious recipes that make the McDougall Program not only possible, but also a pleasure. Dr. McDougall has cared for thousands of patients for almost 3 decades. His program not only promotes a broad range of dramatic and lasting health benefits but, most importantly, can also reverse serious illnesses including high blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes and others, all without the use of drugs.

          • I see where you get your sources now. That Lederman guy is from that website http://www.transitiontohealth.com

            That is where you got that other article from forks and knives .com

            I figured it out where you get your sources. He is the guy that makes that terrible analogy about how butter clogs a pipe. That’s the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Butter never clogs a pipe.

            Toilet paper does!

            Watch this Lederman guy swallow really hard after he speaks.

            It because he knows what he just said is…

            His explanation sucks,

            https://youtu.be/1cl2IX94GCI

            Once again I ask the question, watching there mannerisms and what they have to say. Do you find what they are saying to be intelligent?

            Do they present any science?

            I was at this Ledman guys website,
            http://www.transitiontohealth.com

            I wanted to make a comment but it says comments are closed.

            I wonder why?

          • I was going to say something nice but I started the video. I am only 30 seconds in and the video you used is terrible. The video hasn’t even started yet and my opinion of the guy is he is an idiot.

            90% carbs, 5% fat 5% protein

            A screen pops up and it says, “His diet cured type 2 diabetes 100% of the time, reversed heart disease and cured a host of common degenerative diseases.

            You need to scroll down and read the comments to understand diabetes

            http://www.forksoverknives.com/fat-insulin-resistance-blood-sugar/

            Show this video to any diabetic type 2 and within 10 seconds, even before watching the video.

            Diabetes type 2’s will say bull shit!

            Within 5 seconds its says 90% carbs… his diet cured type 2 diabetes

            Do you know what a carb does to a diabetes type 2?

            All type 2 cases are different, some are worse than others but i will make one up for you as an example.

            A diabetic type 2 can eat 30 grams of carbs, within an hour his blood glucose can jump from lets say 110 to 250. and it can stay at 250

            That is like having syrup in your blood

            The video then jumps to a screen with a white background. A diet that consists of rice, fruit and fruit juice and sugar

            Already he lost me. Those ingredients is will get a type 2 legs amputated.

            Believe me the way the video opens, a diabetes 2 type person will have a hard time listening.

            Rice by itself can get a type 2 legs amputated

          • It’s because there is a lot of ignorance about diabetes. As I showed you, diabetes and many diseases can be cured by the “rice diet”. He is not recommending that because it’s so limited but it shows that carbs are not the problem. This doctor is not the only one pointing this out. Dr. Neal Barnard of PCRM wrote a book on it…it’s not about complex carbs! It’s about other factors in the diet. If it was about carbs then most populations of the world, who rely on carbs as their fuel would have diabetes. But they don’t. You know where diabetes is the highest? Where the diet has a lot of FAT! That includes Western Countries and India where they eat a lot of fat and cheese.

          • Ok you sound pretty confident in you claims. Do you one person that has cured there diabetes type 2?

            Dr Barnard wrote a book and you read it. Thats great but have you meant a person that went into full remission of diabetes?

            In regards to your comment about Fat. Your claim is very vague. So I’m going to clarify it for you because I can. When you use the word Fat but you are referring to hydrogenated oil. Im going to say hell yeah that kills people. Potatoes fried in hydrogenated oils. But I am not going to make a claim like you. It sounds unintelligent. For instance I wrote,

            You know where diabetes is the highest? Where the diet has a lot of Carbs!

            It’s not the carbs or the potatoes. I’d be pissed if someone made that comment.

            Anyways I must say though, that guy Luke made a comment somewhere, where you didn’t understand what he said because you stuck in your ways. He wasn’t saying carbohydrates is toxic, he was saying glucose is toxic in the blood stream. It is like having maple syrup in the blood. The body is forced to clean up quickly because because if it stays in the blood stream, it becomes toxic. Everything he is saying is true, ill mark it for you. As reader, I read what you write and i find you very disrespectful because that guy LUKE has not disrespected anyone. You other have a strong belief which is your right and you think he is saying something bad.

            Here Ill mark it for you so you can read it over

          • Yes people are healed from diabetes via the proper diet. I can’t say more. You can search it yourself.

          • The guy in the video is an idiot, I hate the way he tilts his head when he says a diet 93 percent carbohydrates cured diabetes.

            What was the 93% carbs, was broccoli? What was it?

          • He’s not an idiot. He has 30 years of healing people from heart disease and diabetes along with other diseases with diet. He is a trained doctor who decided to go the way of health. He has written many books. Hardly an idiot.

          • I wrote another comment under this video. I wonder what your thoughts are on my comments on youtube.

            I wonder if you are able to see what happened because of people like this McDougall guy.

            Since your such a big fan of him

            The question i have is, was what I wrote the truth? Is that what happened?

            https://youtu.be/1cl2IX94GCI

          • You are incorrect that rice does not have nutrients. Like other carbohydrate rich foods it has a lot…even white rice. http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/nutrition-rice-provide-1047.html

            And did you know potatos are loaded with nutrients? Not only healthy carbs, but also protein and some fat. Not only that but potatos have most of the vitamins and minerals we need if we keep the skin on. Potatos are so loaded in nutrients that they kept two scientists in excellent health in an experiment after WW2. They remained in excellent health.

            Carbs like potatos, rice, quinoa, rye, oats are keeping and have kept civilizations healthy and running for ages. It’s only when we started to eat a lot of meat, processed foods that our health goes down.

      • Hey, I am really glad I talk to you in this forum. I learned a lot. I learned about that John Mcdougall guy and that Matt Lederman guy that runs that fork over knives website. I learned about the VEG source guy also. I thought it stood for vegetable source but later found out it stood for vegan. I watched a couple video’s of the vegsource guy and all he does is complain. Complain, Complain, hate, hate, complain. Anyways I have my perception of how a vegan thinks. Watch this video, all he does is complain, complain and hate. Does a viewer even know what obesity 2016 is? All claims, no science but anyways.

        I am happy you introduced me to these people. Im grateful. Thank You.

        Im a very nice person but I don’t like these people. I think they are responsible for hurting and making people sick.

        If you google, “Does fat raise blood glucose.”

        That Fork and knives article pops up as #3. I hate that it is the #3 article. That is a screwy article. Like manipulative. Here is a copy and paste, “It’s FAT. Intramyocellular lipids, or the fat inside our muscle cells.

        It says FAT in bold but are only talking about muscle cells, not normal cells.

        I hate that article because when a person that gets diagnosed as a type 2 Diabetic for the first time and they do research to try to better themselves. They come across that article and they take that knowledge in, it makes there situation worse! That article is sharing bad knowledge.

        The vegsource guy, I don’t like him either. Watch this video. Complain, complain, hate, hate, complain and make claims. Where is the science?!

        He says, La La La La La!

        Read my comment on youtube. Posted July 10

        https://youtu.be/M6vbr_adABM

    • You’re absolutely right. There’s been tons of research so far to conclude definitively that carbs are not the way to go. Fats provide over twice the energy of carbs. The Egyptians became obese and disease ridden living on grains in carbs (kinda like we’re all becoming). Plus, Ketosis has been shown to reverse diseases such as Alzheimers. So yeah… this article is a different kind of a blow.. .lol

      • I am not against fat but we shouldn’t be eating a lot. Fat is actually the cause of diabetes as it coats the cells and makes them less able to produce insulin. Fat also can be hard on other organs. One of them the adrenals. They have to work harder with lots of fats. If you are eating especially a lot of animal fats you are at a much higher risk of heart disease. Duh.

        • your knowledge on nutrition is antiquated and just plain wrong on the point where saturated fact causes diabetes. The cause of type II diabetes is well known, its high sugar/carb (really same thing) intake among other factors but that is the main one:

          Saturated fat intake was not associated with all cause mortality
          (relative risk 0.99, 95% confidence interval 0.91 to 1.09), CVD
          mortality (0.97, 0.84 to 1.12), total CHD (1.06, 0.95 to 1.17), ischemic
          stroke (1.02, 0.90 to 1.15), or type 2 diabetes (0.95, 0.88 to 1.03).
          There was no convincing lack of association between saturated fat and
          CHD mortality (1.15, 0.97 to 1.36; P=0.10).

          http://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h3978

          • It is actually your knowledge on nutrition that is outdated, you should look into more recent stuff, Mr. Atkins work is being proved wrong by newer studies that are coming up every day

            Can you name a disease that gets cured or improved by consuming a high fat diet?

          • Im not quoting any of Dr Atkins work…

            As you can see, the studies I have linked to are fairly recent, as opposed to the pure opinion driven information that you give…

            Saying “studies have shown” without linking to studies doesnt prove anything…

            What studies are you talking about? I would like to see them.

            “Can you name a disease that gets cured or improved by consuming a high fat diet?”

            yes, many, for one take a look at the study that I posted previously…

            Epilepsy, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s:
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/

            ketogenic diet is very effective for weight loss. Being obese increases the risk of almost every degenerative disease.

            Lower LDL and triglycerides and inflamatory markers, Higher HDL…

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/therefore reducing your weight reduces these risks…

            Treatment of drug resistant seizures:

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23515148

            “The ketogenic diet reduces seizure frequency by more than 50% in half of
            the patients who try it and by more than 90% in a third of patients.[5]
            Three-quarters of children who respond do so within two weeks, though
            experts recommend a trial of at least three months before assuming it
            has been ineffective.[9]
            Children with refractory epilepsy are more likely to benefit from the
            ketogenic diet than from trying another anticonvulsant drug.[1] There is some evidence that adolescents and adults may also benefit from the diet.[9]”

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenic_diet

            this is all information that takes 5 minutes to find on google. It doesnt look like you have spent much time researching the ketogenic diet before forming your opinions on it..

          • If Alzheimer is the best you can cite, your argument is not that strong, because we dont know too much about it yet

            A Plant based diet, low in cholesterol and low in inflamatory agents, hormones, bacteria, etc. has proven to help even revert several clinical conditions and even help to prevent CANCER witch is amazing….

            That is all well documented with many testimonials of former sick meat eaters unlike your research on alzheimer witch is interesting, but not impressive if that is the best your diet can do

            And you should know that even in regards to Alzheimer studies show there is a relation to clogged brain arteries (Cholesterol intake) and Alzheimer and that a diet “high in meat, poultry, eggs, and cheese – leads to increased serum and brain concentrations of aluminum”

            We should be humble about what we do not know yet, but you should know there are studies that show a diet Hi in animal products can be a determining factor in Alzheimer development

            http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougall/2004nl/040600pualzheimer.htm

          • Not really. I get it from PCRM. I think people who eschew healthy carbs are delusional. They are also the least attractive people I know of. Everyone I know who is low carb is FAT and THICK. They also do not look good or healthy. Yes, they may have lost some weight but they do NOT look good. Doesn’t mean they are not decent people but they are not thriving and vibrant. Low carbers also suffer body odor, bad breath, constipation and if done long enough, organ damage. Hunters and gatherers did not live long. Eskimos have the worst health of all. It’s such foolishness there is no point arguing with you people. You bring up “facts” but often by some FAT low carb authors…most of them are FAT…they just want to tell you what you want to believe. They are ugly too. On You Tube there are tons of whole food high carb people and they are truly slim and VIBRANT and their health numbers are good. I think people like you are a fool or you are just don’t want to eat vegetables and grains, mostly meat so you choose a diet of your liking.

          • Im not entirely sure who you are arguing with here but it doesnt seem to be me. I will answer some of your points anyway though:

            “You bring up “facts” but often by some FAT low carb authors…most of them are FAT…”

            I havent quoted any “low carb authors” I have only linked to studies.

            Also, someone being fat doesnt stand to the veracity or lack their of, of their statements…
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

            “Hunters and gatherers did not live long.”
            Here you’re making the simple mistake of not knowing how statistics work. Here is a question for you…

            The average American family in 2015 consisted of 3.14 persons…
            How many American families actually had 3.14 persons in them?

            “On You Tube there are tons of whole food high carb people and they are truly slim and VIBRANT”

            I never said anything to the contrary..

            “Eskimos have the worst health of all.”
            The Inuit eating a western diet have very bad health.. Inuit eating their traditional diet which is 80 to 90% animal products have very good health and are almost devoid of western degenerative diseases like CVD, Stroke, Cancer etc..
            http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox

            It would help (mostly yourself)when you are writing responses to peoples arguments if you quoted them (like I am doing here with you). If you did this you would see that you are largely delusional and arguing points that I have never made. If I havent made the points you are arguing with, who are you arguing with exactly? A little voice in your head maybe?

            “I think people like you are a fool or you are just don’t want to eat
            vegetables and grains, mostly meat so you choose a diet of your liking.”

            You dont know me…or have enough information from my comments to be able to accurately judge what kind of person I am or what kind of diet I follow.

            I eat lots of vegetables, the majority of my diet is made up of vegetables. In fact, I grow most of my own vegetables and fruits and also have my own chickens for eggs.

            You argue with points I havent made, judge me and my habits without having the slightest idea of what they are, and its people like me (whatever that means) who are the fools?

          • Yes you are. It’s foolish to think carbs are toxic. And YES the leaders of high fat, low carb they are heavy and fat.

          • Your reading comprehension skills seem to be really limited and your rebuttals very childish, how old are you?

            “Yes you are.”
            I am what?

            “It’s foolish to think carbs are toxic. ”
            Again…I never said “carbs where toxic”… Learn to read, or at least take the time to read something properly so that you understand it…

            Here is what I said:
            “hyperglycemia
            glucose in “high levels” which is exactly what i said in my previous comment is toxic…”

            That is the third time I have to explain the same thing to you…

            Who are ” the leaders of high fat, low carb they are heavy and fat.”? and when have I made reference to them?

            I see you have no answers to my questions and apart from a link to a vegan propaganda website you haven’t offered up a single piece of evidence to support any of your claims…

          • I didnt say I was on a ketogenic diet. Just that ketosis is one explanation of where the energy needed comes from which is obviously ignored by the authors of this article. Saying the big human brain needs energy from carbs.. Not true… It can use ketones.

          • Your very emotional about your claims. Some of claims are true.

            You said, “Everyone I know who is low carb is FAT and THICK.”

            Yes they probably are FAT and THICK. That is why they are going low carb to improve there health.

            Dont quote me, I’m stating an emotional thought also. I think people use eskimos as an example because they never suffer from cardiovascular disease. That’s why people may reference them.

            And people on Youtube that look good because they watch what there food intake.

            And your comment, “I think people like you are a fool or you are just don’t want to eat vegetables and grains, mostly meat so you choose a diet of your liking.”

            That Luke guy would probably say, who are the people you are talking about?

            I think everyone thinks that eating vegetables is good for you. I have never meant a person that has thought eating vegetables was bad for you.

            So who are you talking about that don’t want to eat vegetables?

        • You’re misinformed. There’s bad fats and good fats. The human body runs on fat. Not carbs. Your info on heart disease is completely antiquated. Diabetes is caused by denatured mono unsaturated fats. Seriously, get a clue. You’re spreading misinformation.

          • There is no arguing ignorance. That we RUN on fat is ridiculous. We run on carbs. If we force the body to run on fats eventually it causes organ failure and other diseases. I have posted videos/info from people who are healing people with low fat high carb diets. If you are saying they are lying fine. But it is your ignorance that is getting in the way of truth.

          • The ignorance you’re arguing for is yours unfortunately. There’s both archeological evidence (the Egyptians) that high carb diets are disease causing to actual, recent studies. We do NOT run on carbs. That’s just bull. Here’s some more proof that you’ll ignore to maintain your own ignorance: http://www.theiflife.com/the-inuit-paradox-high-fat-lower-heart-disease-and-cancer/

            ““The traditional Inuit diet is fats and proteins, no sugar at all,” says Dewailly. “It is probably one of the healthiest diets you can have. The human body is built for that.”

          • I’ve backed up my claims by links to either scientific research or reference material from doctors. I haven’t seen anything from you that suggests what you claim, and that’s a pretty bold claim. It flies in the face of logic. The Inuit have a diet extremely high in fat and meat. It’s mostly ketogenic. So supply a reference to your claim of “organ failure” or GT…

      • Please site where ketosis is supposed to avoid alzheimers. Studies show that countries that have a low fat intake and low animal product intake have the lowest alzheimers. When they move here the rates go up.

          • That’s for people with EPILEPSY! It may help one part of epilepsy but not necessarily healthy over all.

          • also talks about alzeihmers if you had bothered to read more than the first sentence before making your mind up about it.

            look up the term “confirmation bias”…

            the ketogenic diet has been shown to be very healthy, look at the information i posted in reply to darwin_ranzone.

          • It’s OK. You can believe what you want. Much of the diet books out there are based on what the author wants to believe. Go ahead eat all the saturated fat you want. I won’t. And I will be clear headed as an older person.

          • you are not clear headed now, seeing how many arguments you have “imagined” me to make and your complete lack of reading comprehension skills, but judging by some of your comments you are probably still young and have time to learn…

          • ” Much of the diet books out there are based on what the author wants to believe.”

            as opposed to your well researched, open minded, non assuming approach based on hard facts and evidence…

            yes, I see… Thanks for that valuable pearl of wisdom.

          • Then please share some of that. So far you’ve provided no links to actual science from this decade.

          • Science does not agree with your opinion. There is A LOT of danger with ketogenic diets. Just google it…tons come up. Kidney problems, osteoporosis, increase of cholesterol and heart disease. Also body odor and bad breath on this diet is very common. That is sign enough to me that something is very wrong with it. It shows stress on the body…and it’s gross. It certainly isn’t “clean eating”. http://www.webmd.com/diet/guide/high-protein-low-carbohydrate-diets

          • I have posted links to science, you have posted links to articles…

            “Also body odor and bad breath on this diet is very common. That is sign enough to me that something is very wrong with it.”

            thats because you dont understand what science is or how it works…

            The fact that you provide links as “evidence” that have nothing to do with what we are talking about is testament to your complete and utter lack of understanding on how to do basic research and is probably the reason why you have such a shallow understanding of nutrition….

            the evidence you post for your claims isnt even related to the topic that we are discussing… Your link is to high protein, low carb diets… Im talking about the ketogenic diet and have been all along which is a high fat, moderate protein ,low carb.

            Try again and watch me blow you out of the water time and time again… Its just too easy…

          • You forget science is business. There is no money in a cure.

            That is why science doesn’t agree with his opinion.

            It doesn’t make money.

            People eat bad and get sick. Take pils and go to the doctor.

            It works! Business is booming

          • MORE adverse effects of the paleodiet by a paleo person!

            Adverse Reactions to Ketogenic Diets

            As the list of health conditions that may be at least partially alleviated by ketogenic diets increase (and which currently includes epilepsy, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, Autism, traumatic brain injury, bipolar disease, PCOS, cancer, obesity, and diabetes), so too does a body of literature pointing to common side effects and potential adverse reactions.

            Adverse reactions to a ketogenic diet have been reported in the scientific literature. Yes, even including well-designed clinical trials performed and published very recently. In fact, the intolerability of side effects and adverse reactions is the primary reason for trial participants to drop out of clinical trials (other reasons for trial drop-outs include ineffectiveness of the diet, and that the diet is too hard to follow).

            Adverse reactions are not the same thing as side effects. An adverse reaction is an, unwanted/unexpected and dangerous reaction to a therapeutic agent. In contrast, a side effect is a secondary, typically undesirable effect of a therapeutic agent. More simplistically, side effects are minor and adverse reactions are not. Side effects are typically what are reported in shorter-term studies, where as both side effects and adverse reactions are reported in the long-term ketogenic dietstudies (typically 6 months to 2 years, but any study that allows for keto-adaptation, which takes up to a month, can be considered long-term). This article is not a discussion regarding side effects, the list of which has some overlap with the list of adverse reactions (for example common side effects include minor gastrointestinal symptoms). This article is to draw attention to the documented adverse reactions, which include:

            Gastrointestinal disturbances (diarrhea, vomiting, nausea, constipation, GER)
            Inflammation risk
            Thinning hair/hair loss
            Kidney stones
            Muscle cramps or weakness
            Hypoglycemia
            Low platelet count
            Impaired concentration/cognition
            Impaired mood
            Renal tubular acidosis
            Nutrient deficiency
            Disordered mineral metabolism
            Poor growth in children
            Skeletal fracture
            Osteopenia/osteoporosis
            Increased bruising
            Sepsis, infection, bacteria overgrowth
            Pneumonia
            Acute pancreatitis
            Long QT intervals
            Cardiomyopathy
            Shift towards atherogenic lipid profiles (including hypercholesterolemia and hypertriglyceridemia)
            Heart arrhythmia
            Myocardial infarction,
            Menstrual irregularities and amenorrhea
            Death
            That’s a long list. A long list of not-good things
            http://www.thepaleomom.com/2015/05/adverse-reactions-to-ketogenic-diets-caution-advised.html

          • yes, those are possible side effects…. everything has possible side effects…

            you dont understand the difference between “possible” and “probable”.

            Around 16500 people die from adverse reactions to aspirin and similar drugs per year why havent you started a crusade against them?
            :
            The July 1998 issue of The American Journal of Medicine explains it as follows:

            “Conservative
            calculations estimate that approximately 107,000 patients are
            hospitalized annually for nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug
            (NSAID)-related gastrointestinal (GI) complications and at least 16,500
            NSAID-related deaths occur each year among arthritis patients alone.”
            (Singh Gurkirpal, MD, “Recent Considerations in Nonsteroidal
            Anti-Inflammatory Drug Gastropathy”, The American Journal of Medicine,
            July 27, 1998, p. 31S)

            do you know how many people die from adverse reaction to the ketogenic diet?….not many…

            Here is a part of your own “article” that you obviously chose to ignore which explains very well how to avoid most of the problems or monitor to see if any of them are going to show up:
            “I believe the potential for adverse reactions is important information for people to know when they are weighing a ketogenic diet versus other diets or therapeutic options. But, that doesn’t mean that everyone need avoid ketogenic diets. It’s a question of weighing the pros and cons for each individual. And certainly some of the above adverse reactions can be prevented with careful choice of foods and/or targeted supplementation (such as nutrient deficiency). And it’s important to emphasize that the above list of adverse events also points to a long list of tests that can be performed regularly by a supervising health professional to monitor for any potential detriment in the event that there are compelling reasons to undertake a ketogenic diet.”

            you are the definition of confirmation bias…you pick and choose as you please to reinforce your own beliefs…

          • It’s probable. And there are a lot of them. You don’t get these side effects eat a carb based vegan diet for example. And yes, meat leeches CA from the bones. Not sometimes always.

          • Some more information proving you wrong:

            “Dietary protein is beneficial to bone health under conditions of adequate calcium intake: an update on clinical research”
            “Although it was once thought that the acid generating components of a
            high protein diet were detrimental to bone, an updated review of the
            literature shows greater protein intake is not harmful to bone. The most
            recent research suggests the potential positive impact of dietary
            protein on bone health may be apparent under conditions of adequate
            calcium intake.”

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4180248/

            and another one:

            Acid diet (high-meat protein) effects on calcium metabolism and bone health.

            SUMMARY:

            “On
            the basis of recent findings, consuming protein (including that from
            meat) higher than current Recommended Dietary Allowance for protein is
            beneficial to calcium utilization and bone health, especially in the
            elderly. A high-protein diet with adequate calcium and fruits and
            vegetables is important for bone health and osteoporosis prevention.”

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20717017

            you might as well change your nickname to vegan/veggie dogma because you obviously dont bother to check any of that rubbish that you mindlessly parrot….

          • Also all those scientists rarely know the difference between a healthy carb and less healthy. I am sorry brown rice won’t harm anyone. Sugar yes, sweets, yes, refined foods but natural carbs no. Because within all these grains is more than just carb…some protein and fat as well.

          • All of those scientists ( i suppose you are talking about the ones doing the studies I have linked to and not all of the scientists in the world) are studying the ketogenic diet not carbs, so your comment is irrelevant.

            Another question for you…
            How do you know what “all those scientists” know or dont know when you are talking about an ambiguous, imaginary group of people that you have never met?

          • I didn’t have time before but now I do. A study has found that a higher intake of saturated fats from butter, cakes and fast food is linked to poorer cognitive functions and an increased chance of dementia.

            But people who follow the healthiest diet between the age of 40 to 50 can slash their risk of the devastating condition by the time they reach their 60s.

            Researcher Marjo Eskelinen from the University of Eastern Finland, said: “Diet is very important throughout life, and in the prevention of dementia especially the diet that is consumed already at the age of 40-50 years is of top priority.”

            The study was the first in the world to investigate the relationship between a healthy diet as early as in midlife – and the risk of developing dementia later on.

            The researchers assessed the link between diet and dementia using a healthy diet index based on the consumption of a variety of foods.

            Vegetables, fruits, fish and unsaturated fats from milk products and spreads were some of the healthy dietary components.

            Sausages, eggs, sweets, sugary drinks, salty fish and saturated fats from milk products and spreads were classed as unhealthy. My references…http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/464170/Research-finds-healthy-diet-in-midlife-slashes-dementia-by-90-per-cent

          • If that is the kind of “research” you are getting your information from, then its no wonder your knowledge is so limited…

            For a start, its an article making reference to a study and there are no links to the actual study in the article.

            Here is the actual study:
            http://epublications.uef.fi/pub/urn_isbn_978-952-61-1394-4/urn_isbn_978-952-61-1394-4.pdf

            As you can see, I do my homework better than you do…

            The study is an observational study conducted by “questionnaire” of which there were 20 multiple choice questions about nutrition…

            You can not deduce causal relationships from observational studies…. but I dont expect that you will understand that point… AND its a small sample size of Finland…so the information is only really applicable to that population… I live in the Med…

            Also the studies I posted (which were actual studies for a start) were about the ketogenic diet, not about a normal diet with saturated fat(what you posted), so you cant compare because its not the same.
            They were spreading the fat on bread….

      • Humans were meant to live on carbs. Saying carbs are bad is like saying all good foods for us are off limits. Fruits, grains, potatos, vegetables. These are foods for human beings. Fat is necessary but only a little. It is meat and dairy that is the cause of our diseases not natural carbs like I mentioned before.

  4. Ketosis is actually the body’s starvation defense mechanism. All crash diets rely on ketosis. In other words, if your losing weight rapidly, your body is actually malnourished. Juice fast, smoothie diets, Weight Watchers, LA Weightloss, Atkins, and Paleo all rely on the same principle. Here’s my question…what happens when you’re at your goal weight and there’s no more more keytones to cannibalize? You have to eat carbs. As soon as your body gets the nutrients it’s been starved of, it stores more fat as a buffer, therefore beginning the yo-yo diet.

    If it was a healthy sustainable diet to begin with, it wouldn’t rely on the body’s keytones for essential nutrients. The answer is not food, it’s metabolism. That’s exactly what complex carbohydrates do is regulate metabolism. Fiber increases the viscosity of your food so it moves slower through your intestines and gives time to absorb the nutrients. Sugar is absorbed at a much slower rate, so you don’t use as much insulin. I’m not talking about enriched flour or white rice. I’m talking about whole wheat, oats, and brown rice. The key is eating MORE carbs, and exercising by the way. The weight loss is more gradual, but it’s a sustainable diet.

  5. Primal Body, Primal Mind
    Nora Gedgaudas
    pp. 37-43

    The hunter-gatherer diet can be described via at least two different perspectives: ice age Paleolithic and post–ice age, or neo-Paleolithic. The diet of neo-Paleolithic peoples, including modern-day hunter-gatherers with some regional variation, essentially consisted of high-quality animal-source protein, both cooked and uncooked (including organ meats of wild game, all clean), that was hormone-, antibiotic-, and pesticide-free, naturally organic, and entirely range-fed with no genetic alteration.

    This diet included some eggs, when available, insects (sorry to say), and seafood. This diet was typically moderately high in fat, calorically, at a rate estimated to have been roughly ten times our modern intake (and fat was highly coveted). This included varieties of saturated, monounsaturated, and omega-3 fats, and balanced quantities of omega-6 fats, together with abundant fat-soluble nutrients. Neo-Paleolithic, primitive human diets, as well as diets during more temperate periods amid the ice age, generally included a significant variety of vegetable matter, some fresh raw nuts and seeds, and some very limited quantities of tart, wild fruit, as was seasonally available.

    There was far more plant material in the diets of our more recent ancestors than our more ancient hominid ancestors, due to different factors. The current ice age (yes, “current”), known as the Pliocene-Quaternary glaciation, started about 2.58 million years ago, around the time the first hominids appeared, during the late Pliocene era, when the spread of ice sheets in the Northern Hemisphere began. […]

    There can be no question that our physiology is profoundly influenced by this climatologic history. We have spent highly significant time periods during our ancestral history locked in the grip of mostly ice and snow, with only the briefest periods of warmer reprieve when edible plant life could have grown over a significant portion of the Northern Hemisphere. Periodic swings in climatic conditions, from relatively brief periods of reasonably temperate conditions to prolonged, harsh, ice age conditions, are more recently understood by climatologists to have been relatively each and every ice age during the last 250,000 years actually began quite abruptly, typically (ironically) following spikes in global temperature. Each time this change occurred, the climate descended into full-blown glacial severity within less than twenty years, sometimes well within ten years! Only those people adapted in their physiology and cunning would have survived such sudden onsets of frigid, and unforgiving conditions (Calvin 2002). Even while the Northern Hemisphere was gripped in snow and ice during these periods, Africa was being ripped apart by droughts and wildfires, with catastrophic areas of flooding elsewhere. During any ice age, the entire planet endures a relentless range of such extremes.

    Studies of ancient human coprolites, or fossilized human feces, dating anywhere from three hundred thousand to as recent as fifty thousand years ago, have revealed essentially a complete lack of any plant material in the diets of the subjects studied (Bryant and Williams-Dean 1975). In other words, it is likely we subsisted for a very significant portion of our evolution largely on the meat and fat of animals we hunted. Fat was the prime commodity for its concentrated nutrient and energy value. This has even been true of neo-Paleolithic hunter-gatherers and traditional societies, as clearly shown by the exhaustive scientific work of Weston A. Price first published in 1939 (Price 1989). As omnivores and opportunists, we would always have certainly procured whatever might have been available to us for food. Permafrosts and droughts, however, left many of us limited options for long stretches of time. Fat, too, is our most efficient, dense, and prolonged-burning fuel. It is essential for an important multitude of bodily processes, not the least of which is the functioning of the human brain.

    Another important limitation stems from the fact that we as a species have only relatively recently developed a universally controlled use of fire. By most accounts, this did not occur before fifty thousand to one hundred thousand years ago. Although scattered evidence of fire exists from as far back as three hundred thousand to four hundred thousand years ago, it is unlikely that the sophisticated development of cooking practices occurred much before the use of fire became more universal and commonplace—sometime after Cro-Magnon man migrated into Europe. (The oldest-known pottery dates only as far back as 6800 BCE, incidentally.)

    What makes the use of cooking especially significant is the toxicity of most plant species. Wild plants contain any number of toxic compounds that would have made their use as food in any significant quantity perilous. Cooking is the only means by which many of these “antinutrients” can be neutralized.

    Modern produce has been genetically modified to reduce the presence of harmful compounds to a significant extent. Most wild plants, on the other hand, require extremely careful selection and preparation. Most starchy roots, tubers, and legumes would have been prohibitively dangerous to consume without extensive cooking. Furthermore, the energy expended in the procurement of the remaining types of plant foods easily exceeds their potential caloric value, to say little of their meager, inferior available protein content, which is so critical to our needs. Mass die-offs of megafauna following the last ice age ten thousand years ago and over-hunting by humans may have led to an increased dependence on plant foods and ultimately to the development of agriculture. Some people also hypothesize that it was an addiction to the exorphins (morphinelike compounds) in grains that sparked this widespread development. […]

    Nonetheless, it is widely accepted that it was, in fact, our extended dependence on the meat and fat of animals (rich in eicosapentaenoic acid, or EPA; and docosahexaenoic acid, or DHA) through these frozen winters of unimaginable duration that allowed for the rapid enlargement and development of the human brain. Meat and especially fat would have been the most coveted and important commodities of all. We never would have survived as a species without them.

    Our increased dependence on hunting also likely helped facilitate and develop the very human qualities that we most intrinsically value—cunning, cooperation, altruism, sharing, advanced creativity, the power to foresee the future and to be able to call upon the past in terms of the future, the capacity to evaluate with complexity, and the ability to imagine solutions—qualities not particularly found in other primates (Ardrey 1976). Also, interestingly, the dominant form of fatty acids in the human brain is omega-3; in chimps and other primates, it is mostly omega-6. This is a very significant distinction and one that is the likely result of these evolutionary, ice age–induced dietary changes.

    Many authors popularizing the notion of Paleolithic diets base their conclusive evidence on the diets of more-contemporary primitive peoples, forgetting that for most of our evolution, the world has been a very, very different place. Either way, it is evident from even the most recent analysis of primitive diets that animal-source foods and fat-soluble nutrients invariably play a critical, central role in such peoples’ extraordinary physical and mental health and freedom from disease, as characterized in primitive peoples and more traditional groups. It is also quite evident that diets consisting of any significant quantity of carbohydrates are a strictly modern phenomenon, one that our ice age human physiology has evolved little adaptation to—or defense against.

    Carbohydrates, other than the largely indigestible variety found in fibrous vegetables and greens, have generally played a minimal role at best through most of human evolution. Fruit was consumed only seasonally by our neo-Paleolithic ancestors in most places, and wild fruit is extremely fibrous and smaller in size, with less total sugar content. Many potatoes and tubers would have required extensive cooking to neutralize extremely toxic alkaloids. Wild varieties that would have been available to us through most of our history as a species can be especially toxic.

    In other words, it isn’t likely we were eating baked potatoes with our woolly mammoth steaks—or much starch at all.

    In fact, of all the macronutrients (that is, protein, fats, and carbohydrates), the only ones for which there are no actual human dietary requirements are carbohydrates. This is a critical and very fundamental point to remember: we don’t ever have to eat any sugar or starch of any kind at all in order to be optimally healthy.

    Our bodies can manufacture glucose, as needed, from a combination of protein and fat in the diet. As a matter of fact, glucose is really needed only in an ongoing way mainly for fueling our red blood cells. Most organs and tissues in the body, including the brain, actually prefer, if we let them, to use ketones, the energy-producing by-products from the metabolism of fats. This fact is very overlooked or misunderstood by the majority of medical and nutritional experts. There is abundant evidence that many modern disease processes, including those resulting in cardiovascular disease, elevated triglyceride levels, obesity, hypertension, diabetes, hypoglycemia, and cancer, to name a few, are the product not of excess natural fat in the diet, but of excess carbohydrates.

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